3 ms·

> his promulgation of national self-determinism came straight out of his racist Jim Crow views Can you expand on this? I'm having some trouble understanding th

> his promulgation of national self-determinism came straight out of his racist Jim Crow views Can you expand on this? I'm having some trouble understanding the connection.

gumby 8y ago
He was a southern, segregationist racist who segregated the federal government. He believed that there were nations and races and that they fundamentally had different interests. Sure it was a handy tool to use against a multiethnic empire like Austria-Hungary, but the whole idea of "national self-determination" sprang from his racist beliefs that people are fundamentally different.
- s_m_t 8y ago
  Having fundamentally different interests and being fundamentally different are in no way mutually exclusive
- 0815test 8y ago
  Hungary wanted out, for reasons that had nothing to do with Wilson. The first "Compromise", partially restoring her sovereignty, is from as early as 1867! And after the Austrians lost in WWI full independence was clearly in the cards, no matter what Wilson would say. "Racism" seems to be mostly a red herring when it comes to Wilson's beliefs, especially since he was also influential in establishing the League of Nations.
  - gumby 8y ago
    Wilson was a notorious racist, that’s hardly an opinion. As I said he segregated the federal government, praised “Birth of a nation” etc. And we often use “nation” and “country” indistinguishably (especially Americans) but the point of “national sovereignty” was that each “nation” or “race” (in his time it was common to say “Italian race” or “Irish race”) should have self-government regardless of whether they had been living happily together or not. Not that he felt the US should be slit up or anything — having the “white man” (as they phrased it then) run everything was important to him.

3 ms·

> his promulgation of national self-determinism came straight out of his racist Jim Crow views Can you expand on this? I'm having some trouble understanding th

by icebraining 8y ago

> his promulgation of national self-determinism came straight out of his racist Jim Crow views Can you expand on this? I'm having some trouble understanding the connection.

gumby 8y ago
He was a southern, segregationist racist who segregated the federal government. He believed that there were nations and races and that they fundamentally had different interests. Sure it was a handy tool to use against a multiethnic empire like Austria-Hungary, but the whole idea of "national self-determination" sprang from his racist beliefs that people are fundamentally different.
- s_m_t 8y ago
  Having fundamentally different interests and being fundamentally different are in no way mutually exclusive
- 0815test 8y ago
  Hungary wanted out, for reasons that had nothing to do with Wilson. The first "Compromise", partially restoring her sovereignty, is from as early as 1867! And after the Austrians lost in WWI full independence was clearly in the cards, no matter what Wilson would say. "Racism" seems to be mostly a red herring when it comes to Wilson's beliefs, especially since he was also influential in establishing the League of Nations.
  - gumby 8y ago
    Wilson was a notorious racist, that’s hardly an opinion. As I said he segregated the federal government, praised “Birth of a nation” etc. And we often use “nation” and “country” indistinguishably (especially Americans) but the point of “national sovereignty” was that each “nation” or “race” (in his time it was common to say “Italian race” or “Irish race”) should have self-government regardless of whether they had been living happily together or not. Not that he felt the US should be slit up or anything — having the “white man” (as they phrased it then) run everything was important to him.