5 ms·

It seems like someone did do them! Obvious examples include: 1. basecamp/fogbugz/jira 2. Confluence/Sharepoint 3. django/rails 4. Google Docs 5. Facebook

by smanek 16y ago

kno 16y ago
... While we were all sleeping.
cadr 16y ago
I think there is a lot further someone could take #3 (crud apps for business). While django/rails are great, I think you could build some more specific tools that would provide a lot more leverage in some cases. (Maybe something like DabbleDB but with some more specifics built in.)
- bad_user 16y ago
  Like what cases? Both frameworks support plugins you know.
  - cadr 16y ago
    Sure, but do you really want to mess with low level things like html (or even haml, etc) when all you care about is business logic? Not saying you are wrong, just saying I think there is room in that space for some innovation.
    - bad_user 16y ago
      There are a couple of CMS modules for Django. For Rails there are a couple of good open-source shopping carts that you can customize (quite nicely actually, if you know Rails, since all Rails projects have a standard layout). And I think such projects will migrate to being plugins (which are fairly new in Rails). Sure, HTML editing is still required and can be painful, but it is an effective way of branding the final result. I think clickety-click interfaces where you modify the interface through various selections / drag-n-dropping are seriously flawed. Yes, MS Office is a nice example of what a WYSIWYG interface can do, but that's just for standard documents. As soon as you want to get creative in Word, you'll feel the pain and start wishing for HTML. Besides ... design, other than replacing a logo / playing with colors / choosing a layout from a predefined set, should be left to people that know what they are doing and there is no way around that, because IMHO the hard part is not the HTML language itself, which is included nowadays in high-school curriculum.
- ultrasaurus 16y ago
  I think #3 very quickly very quickly merges with #2. Specialized crud applications start to look a lot like CMS's with well defined content.
- ziutek 16y ago
  Like Salesforce / Force.com. It's more a framework you build upon than a CRM app.
- uggedal 16y ago
  Like http://www.appignite.com/ http://www.appignite.com/ ?
  - cadr 16y ago
    Maybe? I don't know - the linked page doesn't really have any information.
- ordinaryman 16y ago
  I am working on such an app, over Google App Engine.. http://creator.ifreetools.com http://creator.ifreetools.com Sample walk-through :: Building a Store Locator type Google Maps app over GAE, using iFreeTools : http://blogs.ifreetools.com/2010/11/building-store-locator-type-google-maps.html http://blogs.ifreetools.com/2010/11/building-store-locator-t...
ebiester 16y ago
No. People still haven't done #3 right. Alpha five comes closest, but apparently nobody has heard of them. It should be built on top of SQL server, or Oracle. People are using it already. It should have a subset of Crystal Reports, with an easy way to develop simple entry yet let you override the business logic if necessary. Essentially, combine ext-js with django's administration, with a marketplace of addons for various verticals.
- cadr 16y ago
  Have you used Alpha Five? Any comments on it? Glancing over the page it looks like it might be in the realm of what I am thinking of. As an aside, one thing that these type of tools often lack is integrated testing. Which is a shame, because it seems like it should be easier in these tools, as the tool can have a lot of context about what the fields, etc, mean.
  - ebiester 16y ago
    I had an evaluation copy on my desktop, but didn't play with it. There were others when I was looking; I went the traditional development path for the project instead. http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/infoworld-review-tools-rapid-web-development-297?page=0,0 http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/infoworld-review-... has some of them.
    - jeremypeng 16y ago
      I read the same article looking for alternatives. Did a little sleuthing and found something called ironspeed. Looks like a competitor. It builds everything in C# or VB from an existing database. I'm working with their trial now but there jury's still out...

It seems like someone did do them! Obvious examples include: 1. basecamp/fogbugz/jira 2. Confluence/Sharepoint 3. django/rails 4. Google Docs 5. Facebook

by smanek 16y ago

It seems like someone did do them! Obvious examples include: 1. basecamp/fogbugz/jira 2. Confluence/Sharepoint 3. django/rails 4. Google Docs 5. Facebook

kno 16y ago

... While we were all sleeping.

cadr 16y ago

I think there is a lot further someone could take #3 (crud apps for business). While django/rails are great, I think you could build some more specific tools that would provide a lot more leverage in some cases. (Maybe something like DabbleDB but with some more specifics built in.)

bad_user 16y ago
Like what cases? Both frameworks support plugins you know.
- cadr 16y ago
  Sure, but do you really want to mess with low level things like html (or even haml, etc) when all you care about is business logic? Not saying you are wrong, just saying I think there is room in that space for some innovation.
  - bad_user 16y ago
    There are a couple of CMS modules for Django. For Rails there are a couple of good open-source shopping carts that you can customize (quite nicely actually, if you know Rails, since all Rails projects have a standard layout). And I think such projects will migrate to being plugins (which are fairly new in Rails). Sure, HTML editing is still required and can be painful, but it is an effective way of branding the final result. I think clickety-click interfaces where you modify the interface through various selections / drag-n-dropping are seriously flawed. Yes, MS Office is a nice example of what a WYSIWYG interface can do, but that's just for standard documents. As soon as you want to get creative in Word, you'll feel the pain and start wishing for HTML. Besides ... design, other than replacing a logo / playing with colors / choosing a layout from a predefined set, should be left to people that know what they are doing and there is no way around that, because IMHO the hard part is not the HTML language itself, which is included nowadays in high-school curriculum.
ultrasaurus 16y ago
I think #3 very quickly very quickly merges with #2. Specialized crud applications start to look a lot like CMS's with well defined content.
ziutek 16y ago
Like Salesforce / Force.com. It's more a framework you build upon than a CRM app.
uggedal 16y ago
Like http://www.appignite.com/ http://www.appignite.com/ ?
- cadr 16y ago
  Maybe? I don't know - the linked page doesn't really have any information.
ordinaryman 16y ago
I am working on such an app, over Google App Engine.. http://creator.ifreetools.com http://creator.ifreetools.com Sample walk-through :: Building a Store Locator type Google Maps app over GAE, using iFreeTools : http://blogs.ifreetools.com/2010/11/building-store-locator-type-google-maps.html http://blogs.ifreetools.com/2010/11/building-store-locator-t...

ebiester 16y ago

No. People still haven't done #3 right. Alpha five comes closest, but apparently nobody has heard of them. It should be built on top of SQL server, or Oracle. People are using it already. It should have a subset of Crystal Reports, with an easy way to develop simple entry yet let you override the business logic if necessary. Essentially, combine ext-js with django's administration, with a marketplace of addons for various verticals.

cadr 16y ago
Have you used Alpha Five? Any comments on it? Glancing over the page it looks like it might be in the realm of what I am thinking of. As an aside, one thing that these type of tools often lack is integrated testing. Which is a shame, because it seems like it should be easier in these tools, as the tool can have a lot of context about what the fields, etc, mean.
- ebiester 16y ago
  I had an evaluation copy on my desktop, but didn't play with it. There were others when I was looking; I went the traditional development path for the project instead. http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/infoworld-review-tools-rapid-web-development-297?page=0,0 http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/infoworld-review-... has some of them.
  - jeremypeng 16y ago
    I read the same article looking for alternatives. Did a little sleuthing and found something called ironspeed. Looks like a competitor. It builds everything in C# or VB from an existing database. I'm working with their trial now but there jury's still out...