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The cholesterol in = blood cholesterol fallacy is one of the greatest nutrition crimes in history. Low fat/high carb diets are the primary culprit, along with g

The cholesterol in = blood cholesterol fallacy is one of the greatest nutrition crimes in history. Low fat/high carb diets are the primary culprit, along with genetics. Replacing meat and dairy with vegetables may have environmental and ethical benefits, but it doesn't have health benefits.

PerfectElement 8y ago
So heart disease is the #1 killer because people don't eat enough meat? This is nothing but a conspiracy theory that somehow became popular in HN. Mainstream science continues to support that a diet high in whole plants is the best way to prevent heart disease.
- caymanjim 8y ago
  Not because people don't eat enough meat. Because people eat too much sugar, and refined carbs (pasta, flour) are effectively sugar. That's where body fat and cholesterol come from. Meat is largely neutral in this regard. Cholesterol in your blood is produced by your liver. Only a trivial amount of dietary cholesterol becomes cholesterol in your body. When people replace meat with low-fat, high-carb, vegetable-derived alternatives, they're consuming a diet that is far worse than a meat-heavy diet. Whole vegetables are good.
  - tracker1 8y ago
    To those downvoting the above comment... The following video is a bit long, but does go over quite a bit of the misdirection/misinformation from the large pharma and agriculture industries. A lot of this has been relatively well documented. There has never been any reliable study or controlled experiment indicating that dietary cholesterol or saturated fat are the causes of anything negative. Sugar and refined grains have a MUCH higher correlation (higher than even early smoking studies). High fructose intake in particular has been a leading issue. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=jcnd3usdNxo https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=jcnd3usdNxo
    - JauntTrooper 8y ago
      I think this is a better description of the current understanding of the role of saturated fat: https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/the-truth-about-fats-bad-and-good https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/the-truth-abo... Is saturated fat bad for you? A diet rich in saturated fats can drive up total cholesterol, and tip the balance toward more harmful LDL cholesterol, which prompts blockages to form in arteries in the heart and elsewhere in the body. For that reason, most nutrition experts recommend limiting saturated fat to under 10% of calories a day. A handful of recent reports have muddied the link between saturated fat and heart disease. One meta-analysis of 21 studies said that there was not enough evidence to conclude that saturated fat increases the risk of heart disease, but that replacing saturated fat with polyunsaturated fat may indeed reduce risk of heart disease. Two other major studies narrowed the prescription slightly, concluding that replacing saturated fat with polyunsaturated fats like vegetable oils or high-fiber carbohydrates is the best bet for reducing the risk of heart disease, but replacing saturated fat with highly processed carbohydrates could do the opposite.
      - tracker1 8y ago
        > When you pour liquid cooking oil into a pan, there's a good chance you're using polyunsaturated fat. Corn oil, sunflower oil, and safflower oil are common examples. Polyunsaturated fats are essential fats. Why would refined oils from sources that wouldn't have been available to man for 99.9% of human and pre-human existence be recommended at all? This article does nothing but repeat most of the same tropes as espoused for the past half century with no real supporting data behind it. Edit: from: https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/80/3/550/4690530 https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/80/3/550/4690530 > A causal relation between total and LDL cholesterol in blood and CAD has long been accepted. However, despite the strength of the relation between circulating concentrations of LDL cholesterol and heart disease, one should not assume that the relation between saturated fatty acid intake and heart disease is equally strong. ... > Considerable evidence indicates that dietary saturated fats support the enhancement of HDL metabolism. In a study of the effects of reduced dietary intakes of total and saturated fat on HDL subpopulations in a group of multiracial, young and elderly men and women, subjects consumed each of the following 3 diets for 8 wk: an average American diet (34.3% of energy from total fat and 15.0% of energy from saturated fat), the American Heart Association Step I diet (28.6% of energy from total fat and 9.0% of energy from saturated fat), and a diet low in saturated fat (25.3% of energy from total fat and 6.1% of energy from saturated fat) (25). HDL2-cholesterol concentrations decreased in a stepwise fashion after the reduction of total and saturated fat. A reduction in dietary total and saturated fat decreased both large (HDL2 and HDL2b) and small, dense HDL subpopulations, although the decreases in HDL2 and HDL2b were most pronounced. Serum triacylglycerol concentrations were negatively correlated with changes in HDL2 and HDL2b cholesterol. from: https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article-abstract/109/2/433/5289643?redirectedFrom=fulltext https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article-abstract/109/2/433/528... > Those on a low-carbohydrate weight-loss diet who increase their percentage intake of dietary saturated fat may improve their overall lipid profile provided they focus on a high-quality diet and lower their intakes of both calories and refined carbohydrates. This trial was registered at clinicaltrials.gov as NCT01826591.
danans 8y ago
> Replacing meat and dairy with vegetables They weren't replaced with vegetables, they were replaced with sugar made from cheap overproduced corn, and hydrogenated oils. Neither of those is a vegetable. We wouldn't have nearly the diabetes problems we have now if they were replaced by more fresh vegetables.
- tracker1 8y ago
  Cutting dietary fat and replacing it with overly processed sugar, grains and seed oils is horrible for mankind, and a blight spread across the globe from U.S. agriculture industry. For the most part vegetable intake is fine. Though excess fruit consumption year round, and in particular juice is pretty much inline with straight sugar. Your pancreas and liver don't care that it's "natural sugar" a term which irks me to no end.
JauntTrooper 8y ago
It's true that diets with high added / refined sugar are unhealthy. But diets with lots of beef and dairy and low on vegetable fiber are also unhealthy. The link between dietary cholesterol and blood cholesterol is much weaker than previously hypothesized, that's true, but there's ample evidence of the superiority of a vegetable rich diet. The medical and scientific consensus is still that diets high in saturated fats - especially animal fats - as well as trans fats increase your risk of heart disease and high cholesterol. Other lifestyle risk factors are obesity, lack of exercise, smoking and diabetes.
- darkpuma 8y ago
  > " But diets with lots of beef and dairy and low on vegetable fiber are also unhealthy." Not many people can afford the grocery bill of an all dairy/beef diet. Everybody I've ever met who does keto consumes more vegetable fiber than the average american many times over, because without grain as a filler and a wallet deep enough to gorge yourself on beef and cheese all day long, fibrous vegetables are the obvious solution.
mike00632 8y ago
You can concoct studies to show that dietary cholesterol is not correlated with serum cholesterol, but dietary cholesterol with dietary saturated fat is extremely correlated with high serum cholesterol (more so than just dietary saturated fat). Every high typical high cholesterol foods like eggs and meat are also high in saturated fat and reliably raise blood cholesterol. If you want to study elevated cholesterol in the lab you can just feed subjects eggs.

PerfectElement 8y ago

So heart disease is the #1 killer because people don't eat enough meat? This is nothing but a conspiracy theory that somehow became popular in HN. Mainstream science continues to support that a diet high in whole plants is the best way to prevent heart disease.

caymanjim 8y ago
Not because people don't eat enough meat. Because people eat too much sugar, and refined carbs (pasta, flour) are effectively sugar. That's where body fat and cholesterol come from. Meat is largely neutral in this regard. Cholesterol in your blood is produced by your liver. Only a trivial amount of dietary cholesterol becomes cholesterol in your body. When people replace meat with low-fat, high-carb, vegetable-derived alternatives, they're consuming a diet that is far worse than a meat-heavy diet. Whole vegetables are good.
- tracker1 8y ago
  To those downvoting the above comment... The following video is a bit long, but does go over quite a bit of the misdirection/misinformation from the large pharma and agriculture industries. A lot of this has been relatively well documented. There has never been any reliable study or controlled experiment indicating that dietary cholesterol or saturated fat are the causes of anything negative. Sugar and refined grains have a MUCH higher correlation (higher than even early smoking studies). High fructose intake in particular has been a leading issue. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=jcnd3usdNxo https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=jcnd3usdNxo
  - JauntTrooper 8y ago
    I think this is a better description of the current understanding of the role of saturated fat: https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/the-truth-about-fats-bad-and-good https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/the-truth-abo... Is saturated fat bad for you? A diet rich in saturated fats can drive up total cholesterol, and tip the balance toward more harmful LDL cholesterol, which prompts blockages to form in arteries in the heart and elsewhere in the body. For that reason, most nutrition experts recommend limiting saturated fat to under 10% of calories a day. A handful of recent reports have muddied the link between saturated fat and heart disease. One meta-analysis of 21 studies said that there was not enough evidence to conclude that saturated fat increases the risk of heart disease, but that replacing saturated fat with polyunsaturated fat may indeed reduce risk of heart disease. Two other major studies narrowed the prescription slightly, concluding that replacing saturated fat with polyunsaturated fats like vegetable oils or high-fiber carbohydrates is the best bet for reducing the risk of heart disease, but replacing saturated fat with highly processed carbohydrates could do the opposite.
    - tracker1 8y ago
      > When you pour liquid cooking oil into a pan, there's a good chance you're using polyunsaturated fat. Corn oil, sunflower oil, and safflower oil are common examples. Polyunsaturated fats are essential fats. Why would refined oils from sources that wouldn't have been available to man for 99.9% of human and pre-human existence be recommended at all? This article does nothing but repeat most of the same tropes as espoused for the past half century with no real supporting data behind it. Edit: from: https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/80/3/550/4690530 https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/80/3/550/4690530 > A causal relation between total and LDL cholesterol in blood and CAD has long been accepted. However, despite the strength of the relation between circulating concentrations of LDL cholesterol and heart disease, one should not assume that the relation between saturated fatty acid intake and heart disease is equally strong. ... > Considerable evidence indicates that dietary saturated fats support the enhancement of HDL metabolism. In a study of the effects of reduced dietary intakes of total and saturated fat on HDL subpopulations in a group of multiracial, young and elderly men and women, subjects consumed each of the following 3 diets for 8 wk: an average American diet (34.3% of energy from total fat and 15.0% of energy from saturated fat), the American Heart Association Step I diet (28.6% of energy from total fat and 9.0% of energy from saturated fat), and a diet low in saturated fat (25.3% of energy from total fat and 6.1% of energy from saturated fat) (25). HDL2-cholesterol concentrations decreased in a stepwise fashion after the reduction of total and saturated fat. A reduction in dietary total and saturated fat decreased both large (HDL2 and HDL2b) and small, dense HDL subpopulations, although the decreases in HDL2 and HDL2b were most pronounced. Serum triacylglycerol concentrations were negatively correlated with changes in HDL2 and HDL2b cholesterol. from: https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article-abstract/109/2/433/5289643?redirectedFrom=fulltext https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article-abstract/109/2/433/528... > Those on a low-carbohydrate weight-loss diet who increase their percentage intake of dietary saturated fat may improve their overall lipid profile provided they focus on a high-quality diet and lower their intakes of both calories and refined carbohydrates. This trial was registered at clinicaltrials.gov as NCT01826591.

danans 8y ago

> Replacing meat and dairy with vegetables They weren't replaced with vegetables, they were replaced with sugar made from cheap overproduced corn, and hydrogenated oils. Neither of those is a vegetable. We wouldn't have nearly the diabetes problems we have now if they were replaced by more fresh vegetables.

tracker1 8y ago
Cutting dietary fat and replacing it with overly processed sugar, grains and seed oils is horrible for mankind, and a blight spread across the globe from U.S. agriculture industry. For the most part vegetable intake is fine. Though excess fruit consumption year round, and in particular juice is pretty much inline with straight sugar. Your pancreas and liver don't care that it's "natural sugar" a term which irks me to no end.

JauntTrooper 8y ago

It's true that diets with high added / refined sugar are unhealthy. But diets with lots of beef and dairy and low on vegetable fiber are also unhealthy. The link between dietary cholesterol and blood cholesterol is much weaker than previously hypothesized, that's true, but there's ample evidence of the superiority of a vegetable rich diet. The medical and scientific consensus is still that diets high in saturated fats - especially animal fats - as well as trans fats increase your risk of heart disease and high cholesterol. Other lifestyle risk factors are obesity, lack of exercise, smoking and diabetes.

darkpuma 8y ago
> " But diets with lots of beef and dairy and low on vegetable fiber are also unhealthy." Not many people can afford the grocery bill of an all dairy/beef diet. Everybody I've ever met who does keto consumes more vegetable fiber than the average american many times over, because without grain as a filler and a wallet deep enough to gorge yourself on beef and cheese all day long, fibrous vegetables are the obvious solution.

mike00632 8y ago

You can concoct studies to show that dietary cholesterol is not correlated with serum cholesterol, but dietary cholesterol with dietary saturated fat is extremely correlated with high serum cholesterol (more so than just dietary saturated fat). Every high typical high cholesterol foods like eggs and meat are also high in saturated fat and reliably raise blood cholesterol. If you want to study elevated cholesterol in the lab you can just feed subjects eggs.