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> If the same taste can be had in a healthier package and without killing anything, it's a win-win. Most people that are vegan or vegetarian choose that, becau

> If the same taste can be had in a healthier package and without killing anything, it's a win-win. Most people that are vegan or vegetarian choose that, because the ethics part of eating meat is the most important factor for them, with price and taste and nutrition trailing that. And then a lot of those people make the assumption that everyone who isn't vegan absolutely doesn't care about the ethics of it. But that is simply not true. A lot of people, myself included, care about the ethics, it's just that we care more about taste and cost and nutrition. I love eating a good burger, or a good steak. I'm sorry a cow had to die, but I'm not sorry enough to stop doing it. But give me an alternative that is just as good, but where cows don't have to die, and I'll switch in a heartbeat.

landa 8y ago
You can't "care about ethics" if you care about something like taste more. That's like saying you care about the ethics of not stealing, but you care about having an expensive stolen thing more. You just don't care about the ethics.
- buzzy_hacker 8y ago
  How does your model of metaethics account for guilt then? I can appreciate your sentiment, I'm a pescatarian for ethical reasons, but I still believe your claim to be untrue.
- henrikschroder 8y ago
  Thank you for illustrating my point by claiming that if ethics aren't the top overriding priority in your decision, you somehow don't care about ethics at all. That is exactly the attitude that I find frustrating when talking to certain vegans and vegetarians. Imagine the following scenario: I have a choice between two burgers. They both taste the same and cost the same, but the first one requires a cow to die, and the second one doesn't. If I don't care about ethics, then I would choose randomly between the two, because that's not a deciding factor. But if I consistently choose the second one, then I obviously care about ethics, it is a deciding factor for me. It's just not the most important deciding factor, but it's still there. Why does it have to be binary? Why does it have to be all-or-nothing for you? I obviously might not care as much as you do about it, but you claiming that I don't care about it at all is incredibly offensive.
inapis 8y ago
This is such a slippery slope. Anyone can claim that they care about ethics but they care about xyz thing more so ethics take a backseat. All I can see is mental gymnastics. I mean, for all intents and purposes, Hitler could’ve used the same argument. If you like meat just say so. There’s no need to do mental gymnastics in order to appeal to the senses of a stranger.

landa 8y ago

You can't "care about ethics" if you care about something like taste more. That's like saying you care about the ethics of not stealing, but you care about having an expensive stolen thing more. You just don't care about the ethics.

buzzy_hacker 8y ago
How does your model of metaethics account for guilt then? I can appreciate your sentiment, I'm a pescatarian for ethical reasons, but I still believe your claim to be untrue.
henrikschroder 8y ago
Thank you for illustrating my point by claiming that if ethics aren't the top overriding priority in your decision, you somehow don't care about ethics at all. That is exactly the attitude that I find frustrating when talking to certain vegans and vegetarians. Imagine the following scenario: I have a choice between two burgers. They both taste the same and cost the same, but the first one requires a cow to die, and the second one doesn't. If I don't care about ethics, then I would choose randomly between the two, because that's not a deciding factor. But if I consistently choose the second one, then I obviously care about ethics, it is a deciding factor for me. It's just not the most important deciding factor, but it's still there. Why does it have to be binary? Why does it have to be all-or-nothing for you? I obviously might not care as much as you do about it, but you claiming that I don't care about it at all is incredibly offensive.

inapis 8y ago

This is such a slippery slope. Anyone can claim that they care about ethics but they care about xyz thing more so ethics take a backseat. All I can see is mental gymnastics. I mean, for all intents and purposes, Hitler could’ve used the same argument. If you like meat just say so. There’s no need to do mental gymnastics in order to appeal to the senses of a stranger.