7 ms·

Until they arrest and fine you for damaging government property... The way to fight this is with votes or in courts, which may not be effective in short term b

Until they arrest and fine you for damaging government property... The way to fight this is with votes or in courts, which may not be effective in short term but doesn’t land you in jail.

pugworthy 8y ago
Neither votes nor courts enabled this - governments just did it, and will just do things like this without asking (nor sometimes checking). The challenge in a way is how can we ever vote for or fight against (in court) things we don't even know exist sometimes?
- rrix2 8y ago
  Present legislation for public surveillance accountability (or vote for people who will) like Seattle did https://www.seattle.gov/tech/initiatives/privacy/surveillance-technologies/about-surveillance-ordinance https://www.seattle.gov/tech/initiatives/privacy/surveillanc...
- lvs 8y ago
  Courts and legislatures could stop it or regulate its use. The heart of the legal question is what aspects of domestic surveillance might be seen to violate 4th amendment protections. Thus far, "the right of people to be secure in their persons" has not been interpreted by courts in a manner that would constrain or limit surveillance in public places or the use of catch-all checkpoints. That could change with the right test cases, particularly if harms can be established.
  - ams6110 8y ago
    I think the test cases would hinge upon the difference between a specific individual not having an expectation of privacy in public, versus the public in general. It's always been possible to follow an individual around and keep him under surveillance. It's never been possible to keep everybody under surveillance all at the same time.
- bilbo0s 8y ago
  To be fair, the people of San Diego voted their government in. So in my view, they got what they deserved. I'm not sitting on a high horse or anything. I mean hey, I'm from Wisconsin. We're literally the nation's corruption measuring stick. But we voted our politicians in, so we deserve what's happening to us. I'm just holding San Diego to the same standard. If you hadn't voted them in, this wouldn't be happening to you. Best advice I can give you? Vote in some new guys who will pass new measures to get rid of the cameras.
  - mindslight 8y ago
    The idea that people deserve what politicians do to them because voting has occurred is a smug easy answer, but it's ultimately just baseless victim blaming.
  - ams6110 8y ago
    Exactly right. Keep electing the same people, same party, who always campaign on issues that they never actually solve, while they solidify and expand their power.
    - bilbo0s 8y ago
      >who always campaign on issues that they never actually solve, while they solidify and expand their power... Pretty much describes every party though, that's the issue. Wisconsin got screwed over by conservatives, SD got screwed over by liberals. Just have to try to find an honest politician. (Of course, that in and of itself is at once a quixotic and sisyphean task.)
  - djeikyb 8y ago
    1. the folks who did this weren’t unanimously voted in by san diego residents 2. the folks who did this did it secretly, without consent deserves? i’d rather push for what ought to be than justify the current mess.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
zzzcpan 8y ago
They will always find what to arrest you for if you threaten their power.
lamarpye 8y ago
Jussie Smollett would be an excellent spokesman for this issue. A cautionary tale about Government overreach.
ssss11 8y ago
That’s a nice sentiment but in reality your vote doesn’t count because every politician and government puts these measures in at the first opportunity. You may think governments work for the people but that’s just theory.

Until they arrest and fine you for damaging government property... The way to fight this is with votes or in courts, which may not be effective in short term but doesn’t land you in jail.

pugworthy 8y ago

Neither votes nor courts enabled this - governments just did it, and will just do things like this without asking (nor sometimes checking). The challenge in a way is how can we ever vote for or fight against (in court) things we don't even know exist sometimes?

rrix2 8y ago
Present legislation for public surveillance accountability (or vote for people who will) like Seattle did https://www.seattle.gov/tech/initiatives/privacy/surveillance-technologies/about-surveillance-ordinance https://www.seattle.gov/tech/initiatives/privacy/surveillanc...
lvs 8y ago
Courts and legislatures could stop it or regulate its use. The heart of the legal question is what aspects of domestic surveillance might be seen to violate 4th amendment protections. Thus far, "the right of people to be secure in their persons" has not been interpreted by courts in a manner that would constrain or limit surveillance in public places or the use of catch-all checkpoints. That could change with the right test cases, particularly if harms can be established.
- ams6110 8y ago
  I think the test cases would hinge upon the difference between a specific individual not having an expectation of privacy in public, versus the public in general. It's always been possible to follow an individual around and keep him under surveillance. It's never been possible to keep everybody under surveillance all at the same time.
bilbo0s 8y ago
To be fair, the people of San Diego voted their government in. So in my view, they got what they deserved. I'm not sitting on a high horse or anything. I mean hey, I'm from Wisconsin. We're literally the nation's corruption measuring stick. But we voted our politicians in, so we deserve what's happening to us. I'm just holding San Diego to the same standard. If you hadn't voted them in, this wouldn't be happening to you. Best advice I can give you? Vote in some new guys who will pass new measures to get rid of the cameras.
- mindslight 8y ago
  The idea that people deserve what politicians do to them because voting has occurred is a smug easy answer, but it's ultimately just baseless victim blaming.
- ams6110 8y ago
  Exactly right. Keep electing the same people, same party, who always campaign on issues that they never actually solve, while they solidify and expand their power.
  - bilbo0s 8y ago
    >who always campaign on issues that they never actually solve, while they solidify and expand their power... Pretty much describes every party though, that's the issue. Wisconsin got screwed over by conservatives, SD got screwed over by liberals. Just have to try to find an honest politician. (Of course, that in and of itself is at once a quixotic and sisyphean task.)
- djeikyb 8y ago
  1. the folks who did this weren’t unanimously voted in by san diego residents 2. the folks who did this did it secretly, without consent deserves? i’d rather push for what ought to be than justify the current mess.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]

zzzcpan 8y ago

They will always find what to arrest you for if you threaten their power.

lamarpye 8y ago

Jussie Smollett would be an excellent spokesman for this issue. A cautionary tale about Government overreach.

ssss11 8y ago

That’s a nice sentiment but in reality your vote doesn’t count because every politician and government puts these measures in at the first opportunity. You may think governments work for the people but that’s just theory.