4 ms·

> Medication cannot make people happy. (Well at least not the legal drugs, and the illegal ones won't work long term!) They can only create the possibility for

> Medication cannot make people happy. (Well at least not the legal drugs, and the illegal ones won't work long term!) They can only create the possibility for happiness for those who need some extra help. There are phase 3 randomized controlled trials that prove differently.

KerryJones 8y ago
And they are? Your statement is completely anecdotal and carries no weight without the references.
- JamesBarney 8y ago
  Here is one trial there are 100's of others on the same website. https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/results/NCT01441440 https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/results/NCT01441440 P.S. My statement wasn't an anecdote.(I think you're using that word incorrectly)
  - com2kid 8y ago
    The outcome measures for that study are all related to decrease of depressive symptoms, they are not measuring increase in happiness. (Also no one is taking effexor to get high!) An SNRI isn't going to make people feel happy or joyous. It may lift the fog of depression and allow one to feel happiness, but it doesn't create it on its own. Joy in a pill, without long term side effects, doesn't yet exist.
    - YjSe2GMQ 8y ago
      > It may lift the fog of depression and allow one to feel happiness. Well if removing pain isn't happiness. It was for me. At least I don't think any more of how killing yourself is only a problem because of the people that will stay alive and suffer because of your suicide.
  - KerryJones 8y ago
    Anecdotal: "(of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research" My comment was "without references...", ie. facts or research, it would make it anecdotal. As others commented, "lack of depressive symptoms" is very different from happiness. That's what "numbness" is.
    - JamesBarney 8y ago
      There are many ways to measure happiness. But I can't imagine any that aren't affected by a remission of depression.
- DanBC 8y ago
  > Your statement is completely anecdotal and carries no weight without the references. I don't see you asking other people to reference the stuff they're coming out with.
  - KerryJones 8y ago
    Irrelevant? I'm not trying to be the "reference" police, I glanced at the first page or so of comments and this is what stood out to me as being against the multitudes of information/research that I've read. It seems poor form to reject someone else's point by saying "studies say otherwise!" and not provide the studies.
captainredbeard 8y ago
Let’s not forget that 8% of SSRI users end up having an SSRI-induced [hypo]manic episode. It’s a hidden epidemic. Additionally, there are few longitudinal studies that show antidepressants as being effective and reasonably side effect free. Worse, neuroleptics leave the majority of long term users with lifelong tics, tremors, rigidity, and other Parkinson’s style symptoms. But yeah, there’s a study showing they make people happy with a slightly better efficacy than placebo. Playing with fire has its risks. Listen to the burned ones, it’s more complicated than a whitepaper.
- sjg007 8y ago
  That 8% are likely bipolar.
  - mastox 8y ago
    Source? My understanding is the 8% would also include people with just family history.
    - sjg007 8y ago
      Here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2922360/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2922360/ The issue with SSRIs for people who are bipolar is that it can trigger a manic episode.
    - captainredbeard 8y ago
      They arbitrarily removed SSRI-caused (i.e. NOT latent bipolar) as a subtype in DSM-V. The only reasoning behind this that I could find was a decision by a "round-table" of experts. Most other changes in related categories were substantiated by much more.
  - captainredbeard 8y ago
    That's an awfully convenient explanation. Many people never develop symptoms, so exposing folks with latent bipolar disorder is still a near criminal offense.

KerryJones 8y ago

And they are? Your statement is completely anecdotal and carries no weight without the references.

JamesBarney 8y ago
Here is one trial there are 100's of others on the same website. https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/results/NCT01441440 https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/results/NCT01441440 P.S. My statement wasn't an anecdote.(I think you're using that word incorrectly)
- com2kid 8y ago
  The outcome measures for that study are all related to decrease of depressive symptoms, they are not measuring increase in happiness. (Also no one is taking effexor to get high!) An SNRI isn't going to make people feel happy or joyous. It may lift the fog of depression and allow one to feel happiness, but it doesn't create it on its own. Joy in a pill, without long term side effects, doesn't yet exist.
  - YjSe2GMQ 8y ago
    > It may lift the fog of depression and allow one to feel happiness. Well if removing pain isn't happiness. It was for me. At least I don't think any more of how killing yourself is only a problem because of the people that will stay alive and suffer because of your suicide.
- KerryJones 8y ago
  Anecdotal: "(of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research" My comment was "without references...", ie. facts or research, it would make it anecdotal. As others commented, "lack of depressive symptoms" is very different from happiness. That's what "numbness" is.
  - JamesBarney 8y ago
    There are many ways to measure happiness. But I can't imagine any that aren't affected by a remission of depression.
DanBC 8y ago
> Your statement is completely anecdotal and carries no weight without the references. I don't see you asking other people to reference the stuff they're coming out with.
- KerryJones 8y ago
  Irrelevant? I'm not trying to be the "reference" police, I glanced at the first page or so of comments and this is what stood out to me as being against the multitudes of information/research that I've read. It seems poor form to reject someone else's point by saying "studies say otherwise!" and not provide the studies.

captainredbeard 8y ago

Let’s not forget that 8% of SSRI users end up having an SSRI-induced [hypo]manic episode. It’s a hidden epidemic. Additionally, there are few longitudinal studies that show antidepressants as being effective and reasonably side effect free. Worse, neuroleptics leave the majority of long term users with lifelong tics, tremors, rigidity, and other Parkinson’s style symptoms. But yeah, there’s a study showing they make people happy with a slightly better efficacy than placebo. Playing with fire has its risks. Listen to the burned ones, it’s more complicated than a whitepaper.

sjg007 8y ago
That 8% are likely bipolar.
- mastox 8y ago
  Source? My understanding is the 8% would also include people with just family history.
  - sjg007 8y ago
    Here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2922360/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2922360/ The issue with SSRIs for people who are bipolar is that it can trigger a manic episode.
  - captainredbeard 8y ago
    They arbitrarily removed SSRI-caused (i.e. NOT latent bipolar) as a subtype in DSM-V. The only reasoning behind this that I could find was a decision by a "round-table" of experts. Most other changes in related categories were substantiated by much more.
- captainredbeard 8y ago
  That's an awfully convenient explanation. Many people never develop symptoms, so exposing folks with latent bipolar disorder is still a near criminal offense.