3 ms·

Every modern society, looking back fifty years, condemns behavior once considered normal (male-only voting, interracial marriage bans, jailing gays, etc). I'm

Every modern society, looking back fifty years, condemns behavior once considered normal (male-only voting, interracial marriage bans, jailing gays, etc). I'm convinced industrial animal agriculture will be one of the things today's society is condemned for, fifty years from now.

cogman10 8y ago
I don't think that will happen until we get both cheaper and better animal product substitutes. Vegan substitutes usually fail at both which means they are niche mid-upper class foods.
- atomwaffel 8y ago
  Although that seems like it would hopefully fix itself as demand for vegan substitutes increases. The Impossible Burger is a good example of a vegan substitute that tastes uncannily like the thing it imitates. As for cost, it seems intuitive that turning soy into a milk substitute would be cheaper than feeding soy to a cow and milking it if both were done on the same scale. On top of that, some countries tax substitutes higher than the products they replace. In Germany, for example, non-dairy milk has a VAT rate of 19% while dairy milk gets the reduced 7% rate for staple foods.
- hkyeti 8y ago
  The cost curve is rapidly decreasing. Within 5 years, plant-based meats cheaper and tastier than meat. The food world is about to be turned upside down (for the better)
WhompingWindows 8y ago
The bias inherent in our psychology is very intriguing. We are still jailing blacks/men disproportionately, marriage between men was not allowed (and is not many places) until recently, we are still locking up non-violent drug offenders while murderers and rapists get paroled. And yet, there is only a token amount of outrage about these topics. Surely, we tell ourselves, we are notmaking the same ethical mistakes as "moderates" in totalitarian states or slave-holding economies; specifically, how are we much better, we who do not stand up and criticize, but rather tacitly condone these evil practices by our inaction? In the marketplace of ideas, the criticisms of these obviously abhorrent practices simply do not get much currency. Where does the failed war on drugs rank in terms of politically important issues? How about wage slavery, student-loan-indentured servitude, or industrial meat farming? I don't know much, but I do know that people form habits and tend to set their beliefs/wants in stone, such that they will simply overlook suffering caused by their meat eating, tough on crime stances, etc. If it stands in the way of their bacon cheeseburger, most people simply don't spare a thought for others' suffering.
justinmchase 8y ago
And then industrial plant agriculture 25 years later (eating plants is murder too after all).
- neysofu 8y ago
  How can eating plays be considered murder?
MisterBastahrd 8y ago
Just look at Denise McAllister and her recent twitter meltdown. She trolled people by declaring that her husband told her to shut up because the game was on and that she should mind her place. Others responded, one of them a gay journalist. She replied nastily about his homosexuality. She in turn was banned from two far-right wing publications: The Daily Caller and The Federalist. Even twenty years ago, she would have been applauded for her reaction by the same kind of people and they would have concern-trolled for weeks about the negative reaction others might have had.
bredren 8y ago
I'm in complete agreement. What's interesting are the people who speak out or act on behalf the advancement when the practice is still completely normalized. There is a group of vegan activists in Portland called the Cube of Truth. They hide their identity and hold up monitors on the street. If you approach and consent, they will display difficult to consume video of industrial animal practices.[1] I commented there that "the cavalier, even gleeful use of animal products in food and and consumer goods will be a regrettable cultural wave." [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/awp0zc/vegan_papists/ehqei1v/?context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/awp0zc/vegan_papi...

cogman10 8y ago

I don't think that will happen until we get both cheaper and better animal product substitutes. Vegan substitutes usually fail at both which means they are niche mid-upper class foods.

atomwaffel 8y ago
Although that seems like it would hopefully fix itself as demand for vegan substitutes increases. The Impossible Burger is a good example of a vegan substitute that tastes uncannily like the thing it imitates. As for cost, it seems intuitive that turning soy into a milk substitute would be cheaper than feeding soy to a cow and milking it if both were done on the same scale. On top of that, some countries tax substitutes higher than the products they replace. In Germany, for example, non-dairy milk has a VAT rate of 19% while dairy milk gets the reduced 7% rate for staple foods.
hkyeti 8y ago
The cost curve is rapidly decreasing. Within 5 years, plant-based meats cheaper and tastier than meat. The food world is about to be turned upside down (for the better)

WhompingWindows 8y ago

The bias inherent in our psychology is very intriguing. We are still jailing blacks/men disproportionately, marriage between men was not allowed (and is not many places) until recently, we are still locking up non-violent drug offenders while murderers and rapists get paroled. And yet, there is only a token amount of outrage about these topics. Surely, we tell ourselves, we are notmaking the same ethical mistakes as "moderates" in totalitarian states or slave-holding economies; specifically, how are we much better, we who do not stand up and criticize, but rather tacitly condone these evil practices by our inaction? In the marketplace of ideas, the criticisms of these obviously abhorrent practices simply do not get much currency. Where does the failed war on drugs rank in terms of politically important issues? How about wage slavery, student-loan-indentured servitude, or industrial meat farming? I don't know much, but I do know that people form habits and tend to set their beliefs/wants in stone, such that they will simply overlook suffering caused by their meat eating, tough on crime stances, etc. If it stands in the way of their bacon cheeseburger, most people simply don't spare a thought for others' suffering.

justinmchase 8y ago

And then industrial plant agriculture 25 years later (eating plants is murder too after all).

neysofu 8y ago
How can eating plays be considered murder?

MisterBastahrd 8y ago

Just look at Denise McAllister and her recent twitter meltdown. She trolled people by declaring that her husband told her to shut up because the game was on and that she should mind her place. Others responded, one of them a gay journalist. She replied nastily about his homosexuality. She in turn was banned from two far-right wing publications: The Daily Caller and The Federalist. Even twenty years ago, she would have been applauded for her reaction by the same kind of people and they would have concern-trolled for weeks about the negative reaction others might have had.

bredren 8y ago

I'm in complete agreement. What's interesting are the people who speak out or act on behalf the advancement when the practice is still completely normalized. There is a group of vegan activists in Portland called the Cube of Truth. They hide their identity and hold up monitors on the street. If you approach and consent, they will display difficult to consume video of industrial animal practices.[1] I commented there that "the cavalier, even gleeful use of animal products in food and and consumer goods will be a regrettable cultural wave." [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/awp0zc/vegan_papists/ehqei1v/?context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/awp0zc/vegan_papi...