4 ms·

Although I tend to mostly agree with your main argument, the example you presented ( memorizing multiplication tables ) is a bad one. My mind was blown when I f

by coretx 8y ago

Although I tend to mostly agree with your main argument, the example you presented ( memorizing multiplication tables ) is a bad one. My mind was blown when I found out how they teach multiplication to children in Japan. Link: ( Vedic method ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4X98Mnj0tc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4X98Mnj0tc The superiority of the teaching method shows to be significant when compared to other teaching methods elsewhere and even remains noticeable when children encounter higher levels of math.

dhimes 8y ago
This is similar to the "Lattice Method" that they taught (still teach?) here in the US. I can't stand it. The students simply learn an algorithm, without developing a sense of place value and an intuition for "how numbers work." Sure, they can quickly multiply large numbers and it's a cool "party trick." But they aren't learning math. Might as well use an iPhone.
- butmath 8y ago
  Fair point that memorizing an algorithm doesn't necessarily advance the student's intuition for how numbers work, but keep in mind that you're replying on a subthread about how learning a general algorithm is an improvement over memorizing multiplication tables. Ideally, we teach children the intuition for mathematics. Just memorizing arithmetic algorithms isn't ideal, but it's surely better than memorizing finite arithmetic tables.
  - rmah 8y ago
    I don't think it is better to learn some shortcut algo at a young age. Memorizing your times tables up to say 10 * 10 or 12 * 12 is fundamental to understanding multiplication. Remember, the brain is not a turing machine, it's an associative memory machine. Facts are the foundation of knowledge. First memorize the times tables. Then learn the long method. Then learn the shortcuts. IMO, of course.
    - dhimes 8y ago
      I agree with you. To do multiplication by any non-parlor-trick method you have to be able to multiply single-digit numbers. If you don't memorize the table then every time you do larger numbers the process becomes that much more of a chore. Now, that is not to say that you should forego understanding multiplication. But forcing student to memorize the basics (like forcing them to memorize verb forms) (1) makes their life easier later on and (2) gives them the chance to spot patterns themselves.
rdtsc 8y ago
> The superiority of the teaching method shows to be significant when compared to other teaching methods elsewhere and even remains noticeable when children encounter higher levels of math. I was mainly talking about addition and multiplication up to 10x10. Looking through all the tricks and hacks they teach the kids in an attempt to simplify ideas seems very wasteful as the brain at that age is so good at memorizing things. ut the schools don't seem to be taking advantage of that. They think like adults in the sense of "oh let's introduce this abstract idea and prove it and derive the specific examples from it". Yes, a college kid or high school would do well there, but in earlier grades I haven't seen it work. It's a bit like learning a language. An adult might do well to start learning about grammar rules, tenses, cases etc, a kid might do better hearing a lot of example and deriving the rules on their own. Later they might find out that there are 8 tenses, 4 cases, predicates, adjectives etc.

by coretx 8y ago

dhimes 8y ago

This is similar to the "Lattice Method" that they taught (still teach?) here in the US. I can't stand it. The students simply learn an algorithm, without developing a sense of place value and an intuition for "how numbers work." Sure, they can quickly multiply large numbers and it's a cool "party trick." But they aren't learning math. Might as well use an iPhone.

butmath 8y ago
Fair point that memorizing an algorithm doesn't necessarily advance the student's intuition for how numbers work, but keep in mind that you're replying on a subthread about how learning a general algorithm is an improvement over memorizing multiplication tables. Ideally, we teach children the intuition for mathematics. Just memorizing arithmetic algorithms isn't ideal, but it's surely better than memorizing finite arithmetic tables.
- rmah 8y ago
  I don't think it is better to learn some shortcut algo at a young age. Memorizing your times tables up to say 10 * 10 or 12 * 12 is fundamental to understanding multiplication. Remember, the brain is not a turing machine, it's an associative memory machine. Facts are the foundation of knowledge. First memorize the times tables. Then learn the long method. Then learn the shortcuts. IMO, of course.
  - dhimes 8y ago
    I agree with you. To do multiplication by any non-parlor-trick method you have to be able to multiply single-digit numbers. If you don't memorize the table then every time you do larger numbers the process becomes that much more of a chore. Now, that is not to say that you should forego understanding multiplication. But forcing student to memorize the basics (like forcing them to memorize verb forms) (1) makes their life easier later on and (2) gives them the chance to spot patterns themselves.

rdtsc 8y ago

> The superiority of the teaching method shows to be significant when compared to other teaching methods elsewhere and even remains noticeable when children encounter higher levels of math. I was mainly talking about addition and multiplication up to 10x10. Looking through all the tricks and hacks they teach the kids in an attempt to simplify ideas seems very wasteful as the brain at that age is so good at memorizing things. ut the schools don't seem to be taking advantage of that. They think like adults in the sense of "oh let's introduce this abstract idea and prove it and derive the specific examples from it". Yes, a college kid or high school would do well there, but in earlier grades I haven't seen it work. It's a bit like learning a language. An adult might do well to start learning about grammar rules, tenses, cases etc, a kid might do better hearing a lot of example and deriving the rules on their own. Later they might find out that there are 8 tenses, 4 cases, predicates, adjectives etc.