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Valid points - although I certainly didn't expect my words to be taken at face value and judged by the layout of the site itself, which I decided should be as s

Valid points - although I certainly didn't expect my words to be taken at face value and judged by the layout of the site itself, which I decided should be as simple as it could. My work is not this blog, I am not a writer, so when I write, I keep things simple (much like I like them when I read). Also, sometimes I'm just lazy when working for myself :-) I appreciate that you named a few people I'm friends with and whose work I respect. I also know they're not writing pieces like this - which I see as a problem. I do think awareness to the shifting role of the designer is necessary at this point. I've been in this industry for over 10 years now and design and designers are still undefined. Years ago I used to joke that everyone is a designer. Now that I'm taking less of an engineering (and design) role in companies and more into investing/advisory, I feel entrepreneurs and designers SHOULD be aware of what the market needs (and will expect soon) To answer your main point, which is that I didn't say what design should achieve. I didn't indeed - not in this post (check the previous posts for that). I am CERTAINLY (and this is where we'll disagree on the interpretation of my words) not saying design is a way to make companies a quick buck - it is a differentiating factor in the success at startups (and I've seen quite a few in my work, trust me). I would really hate my job if that was all I was doing. My other posts may be more interesting if you're looking for actionable stuff.

rorymarinich 16y ago
Fair enough. :-) I also know they're not writing pieces like this - which I see as a problem. I do think awareness to the shifting role of the designer is necessary at this point. But I still don't agree with this. If anything, I think we need more designers to step up and say "The idea of a 'designer' is dead. Stop pretending like it's possible to be a professional in this day and age; we're all amateurs of differing degrees. There's more to learn than you'll ever be able to learn, so all that matters is that you learn the things you care about learning. Stop wasting time defining things, separating them into canons and non-canons, pretending like success necessarily defines designers or adds an extra meaning to their work." I'm primarily studying advertising right now — though it's certainly not my only or even primary interest — and one thing that attracts me to the study is that the top advertisers on the planet have been saying this for a decade. Agencies like Wieden+Kennedy and the Barbarian Group turn out some work that's so beyond the kin of what we recognize as advertising that it forces you to acknowledge that the old definitions have been thrown out the window, regardless of whether some people insist they're still there. Design hasn't gotten there yet: It's a more conservative field than advertising. (I mean, so is everything. That's the whole idea of being in advertising.) Even the people I just named tend to be more conservative with their designs than the half-generation following them is going to be. Of all the ones I named I think only Inman and the Twitter team are really doing something new, and even they aren't off-the-walls crazy. Not that there's anything bad with that. But certainly one of the reasons I'm not primarily a designer is that it's one of the few artistic fields whose education focuses on old tried-and-true standards rather than on the crazy things that happened last week or yesterday or earlier today. A whole lot of design feels appallingly stagnant. (I'd love to talk this with you more in-depth, by the way — would you mind if I shot you an email?)
- fredoliveira 16y ago
  Your second (technically, third) paragraph won me over - you are absolutely right :-) That needs a more prominent place to live than a comment here at HN - people need to read it. I don't mind you shooting me an email - not at all. I'm swamped with email, however, so I may take a bit to get back to you. But I definitely will.

rorymarinich 16y ago

Fair enough. :-) I also know they're not writing pieces like this - which I see as a problem. I do think awareness to the shifting role of the designer is necessary at this point. But I still don't agree with this. If anything, I think we need more designers to step up and say "The idea of a 'designer' is dead. Stop pretending like it's possible to be a professional in this day and age; we're all amateurs of differing degrees. There's more to learn than you'll ever be able to learn, so all that matters is that you learn the things you care about learning. Stop wasting time defining things, separating them into canons and non-canons, pretending like success necessarily defines designers or adds an extra meaning to their work." I'm primarily studying advertising right now — though it's certainly not my only or even primary interest — and one thing that attracts me to the study is that the top advertisers on the planet have been saying this for a decade. Agencies like Wieden+Kennedy and the Barbarian Group turn out some work that's so beyond the kin of what we recognize as advertising that it forces you to acknowledge that the old definitions have been thrown out the window, regardless of whether some people insist they're still there. Design hasn't gotten there yet: It's a more conservative field than advertising. (I mean, so is everything. That's the whole idea of being in advertising.) Even the people I just named tend to be more conservative with their designs than the half-generation following them is going to be. Of all the ones I named I think only Inman and the Twitter team are really doing something new, and even they aren't off-the-walls crazy. Not that there's anything bad with that. But certainly one of the reasons I'm not primarily a designer is that it's one of the few artistic fields whose education focuses on old tried-and-true standards rather than on the crazy things that happened last week or yesterday or earlier today. A whole lot of design feels appallingly stagnant. (I'd love to talk this with you more in-depth, by the way — would you mind if I shot you an email?)

fredoliveira 16y ago
Your second (technically, third) paragraph won me over - you are absolutely right :-) That needs a more prominent place to live than a comment here at HN - people need to read it. I don't mind you shooting me an email - not at all. I'm swamped with email, however, so I may take a bit to get back to you. But I definitely will.