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The god of humanism and human rights. We are right and Chinese are wrong for oppressing their own people with what amounts to racism and fascist nationalism.

mirimir 8y ago
OK, but why does our god beat their god? Their god is a fuck of a lot older ;) Is it just because we can? And that we'll kick their ass hard enough and long enough that they worship our god? That's cool, I guess. But we ought at least be honest about it. And what if we can't? What then?
- devoply 8y ago
  Their God was invented by Marx, Mao, Fascism, and Capitalism. This has nothing to do with Confucianism or Buddhism or Taoism.
  - mirimir 8y ago
    So you say. But I've heard even vaguely liberal Chinese argue differently. And seriously, have you actually read Confucius? Or the Yi Jing? Concepts like social benefit trumping individual freedom, and respect for authority, go back a long way. Fascism and Communism are relatively modern European inventions. Even Chinese Communism, at its peak, was never anything like what Marx and Engels imagined. Although they talked about social evolution, they were fundamentally operating in the context of individual freedom.
    - devoply 8y ago
      Yes historically Chinese civilization has been highly hierarchical and authoritarian. Which has to do with their state craft, not something due to the will of the people. So much so that they used to completely mistreat people, like for instance see how the great wall was built. That does not mean that we should laud or tolerate that as their culture and the way that it has to be. And if we're talking about living in the past then we should be arming the Uighurs to defend themselves as that's a part of our cultural heritage. In the end the point is for people to have rights and not be subjected to arbitrary harassment, detention or murder by the state. That's a universal global thing now. And that's for the better. I have nothing with the Chinese wanting to be great. That's the purview of all humans. I just have a problem with the way they have decided to go about it. And the rest of the world should as well.
      - mirimir 8y ago
        > That's a universal global thing now. Except for China. And not really even for India. Or for much of the Middle East, for that matter. Or even for Russia, when you really get down to it. So maybe not so much a "global" thing. Maybe a European culture thing. Which thinks that it ought to be global. And yet, I do believe that it ought to be global. But I realize that I'm on shaky ground there.

mirimir 8y ago

OK, but why does our god beat their god? Their god is a fuck of a lot older ;) Is it just because we can? And that we'll kick their ass hard enough and long enough that they worship our god? That's cool, I guess. But we ought at least be honest about it. And what if we can't? What then?

devoply 8y ago
Their God was invented by Marx, Mao, Fascism, and Capitalism. This has nothing to do with Confucianism or Buddhism or Taoism.
- mirimir 8y ago
  So you say. But I've heard even vaguely liberal Chinese argue differently. And seriously, have you actually read Confucius? Or the Yi Jing? Concepts like social benefit trumping individual freedom, and respect for authority, go back a long way. Fascism and Communism are relatively modern European inventions. Even Chinese Communism, at its peak, was never anything like what Marx and Engels imagined. Although they talked about social evolution, they were fundamentally operating in the context of individual freedom.
  - devoply 8y ago
    Yes historically Chinese civilization has been highly hierarchical and authoritarian. Which has to do with their state craft, not something due to the will of the people. So much so that they used to completely mistreat people, like for instance see how the great wall was built. That does not mean that we should laud or tolerate that as their culture and the way that it has to be. And if we're talking about living in the past then we should be arming the Uighurs to defend themselves as that's a part of our cultural heritage. In the end the point is for people to have rights and not be subjected to arbitrary harassment, detention or murder by the state. That's a universal global thing now. And that's for the better. I have nothing with the Chinese wanting to be great. That's the purview of all humans. I just have a problem with the way they have decided to go about it. And the rest of the world should as well.
    - mirimir 8y ago
      > That's a universal global thing now. Except for China. And not really even for India. Or for much of the Middle East, for that matter. Or even for Russia, when you really get down to it. So maybe not so much a "global" thing. Maybe a European culture thing. Which thinks that it ought to be global. And yet, I do believe that it ought to be global. But I realize that I'm on shaky ground there.