6 ms·

I tend to invest in people / companies rather than a technology. There are an abundance of good web frameworks out there so it's not like you're gonna have a ba

I tend to invest in people / companies rather than a technology. There are an abundance of good web frameworks out there so it's not like you're gonna have a bad time just because you don't use a specific one.

airstrike 8y ago
The people behind Django are one of the sharpest set of developers out there. Just hang out the django-developers mailing list for a bit and you'll likely conclude the same. Don't let this one PR color your entire judgement of an otherwise incredibly successful and polished piece of software. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/django-developers https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/django-developers
- ecmascript 8y ago
  > The people behind Django are one of the sharpest set of developers out there. That may be, but it doesn't really matter to me if they put their political views into their code. It can literally be the best framework out there, built by the sharpest minds in the world and I would still use another framework even if it would hurt me economically.
  - vertex-four 8y ago
    Deciding to accept the status quo is also a political decision reflective of one’s political views. The issue here is that you don’t agree with this particular view, not that it is a political view.
    - ecmascript 8y ago
      Yes of course. I do not want others political views forced upon me. Just as I wouldn't want others religion force upon me. I would be as opposed to this change if it was 'god'/'disciples' or something similar. I also think there would be more people like me if that were the case. But just because it's a popular opinion everyone lashes on my 'irrational' behavior. I don't think it's that irrational though.
      - vertex-four 8y ago
        Living in society today involves having others' political views forced on me every day, in the form of "you should accept the status quo and not speak up about it". Many people just don't understand this because the status quo is fine for them.
        ecmascript 8y ago
        > Living in society today involves having others' political views forced on me every day Yes to some extent. Most secular and democratic societies has agreed to a standard that I defend. Call it status quo if you want. I think decisions like Djangos goes against that standard and is probably why I feel so strongly about this. They want to police speech and force everyone to use specific words. I don't think we should police speech but there is a lot of people that are pushing for censorship and making some speech illegal today and I simply defend the usage of the words master and slave. I don't think there is anything political about it and they are not racially charged since masters and slaves has occurred in basically all societies through time. Banning the words because of american politics is absurd. I hate the modern american politics, I am not an american and I do not want it in my life. By doing this, Django forces everyone to think about this and you have to be extremely sensitive if this is what you go around and think/worry about. What else will they do in the future? Ban people from using Django for certain stuff etc? Surely it would be forked etc, but forks rarely works out great in the long run.
        vertex-four 8y ago
        > Most secular and democratic societies has agreed to a standard that I defend. Cool. But that’s your politics, and not necessarily everybody’s, and to have a different political position from you is not inherently morally wrong. We could argue about whether or not the status quo is fine, but that’s not the point - the point is simply that taking the status quo as acceptable is a political position which you’re subjecting others to, and your defence of it to the point of refusing to use software that does not back the status quo doubly so. Or, in other words, you’re not for getting politics out of software - you’re for getting politics that you don’t agree with out of software.
  - mlevental 8y ago
    really? which operating system are you on? if you didn't write it yourself then it's not apolitical. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_personal_is_political https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_personal_is_political
  - Scarblac 8y ago
    Then you're letting yourself be hurt by your political views. The Django developers try to include the absolutely widest range of people they can. But if that makes people decide to exclude themselves, that's not Django's problem IMO.
    - ecmascript 8y ago
      Well yes, maybe. Maybe not. I think this is not about inclusion though, this is about exclusion of people who think like me.
  - chickenfries 8y ago
    Do you not use anything from the GNU project because of their politics?
    - ecmascript 8y ago
      What politics do they enforce on me by using their products?
      - chickenfries 8y ago
        Free software is a political movement. Calling it “free” was a political choice to convince people that proprietary software is “unfree”. I really don’t know where to begin explaining this...
        ecmascript 8y ago
        Well yes, but they are not policing speech as far as I know. I have nothing against people/projects being political, it's when a specific political view that I do not agree with gets enforced upon me that the issue arises.
        airstrike 8y ago
        Companies and institutions have every right to define what is acceptable speech in their own universes And freedom of speech isn't an absolute right – not even in the U.S., but even less so in pretty much any other advanced Western democracy.
  - sergiotapia 8y ago
    I feel the exact same way about Rust for what it's worth. Turned me off the language completely.
    - ecmascript 8y ago
      Why do you feel this way about Rust? Glad to hear I'm not alone anyway ;)
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]

airstrike 8y ago

The people behind Django are one of the sharpest set of developers out there. Just hang out the django-developers mailing list for a bit and you'll likely conclude the same. Don't let this one PR color your entire judgement of an otherwise incredibly successful and polished piece of software. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/django-developers https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/django-developers

ecmascript 8y ago
> The people behind Django are one of the sharpest set of developers out there. That may be, but it doesn't really matter to me if they put their political views into their code. It can literally be the best framework out there, built by the sharpest minds in the world and I would still use another framework even if it would hurt me economically.
- vertex-four 8y ago
  Deciding to accept the status quo is also a political decision reflective of one’s political views. The issue here is that you don’t agree with this particular view, not that it is a political view.
  - ecmascript 8y ago
    Yes of course. I do not want others political views forced upon me. Just as I wouldn't want others religion force upon me. I would be as opposed to this change if it was 'god'/'disciples' or something similar. I also think there would be more people like me if that were the case. But just because it's a popular opinion everyone lashes on my 'irrational' behavior. I don't think it's that irrational though.
    - vertex-four 8y ago
      Living in society today involves having others' political views forced on me every day, in the form of "you should accept the status quo and not speak up about it". Many people just don't understand this because the status quo is fine for them.
      - ecmascript 8y ago
        > Living in society today involves having others' political views forced on me every day Yes to some extent. Most secular and democratic societies has agreed to a standard that I defend. Call it status quo if you want. I think decisions like Djangos goes against that standard and is probably why I feel so strongly about this. They want to police speech and force everyone to use specific words. I don't think we should police speech but there is a lot of people that are pushing for censorship and making some speech illegal today and I simply defend the usage of the words master and slave. I don't think there is anything political about it and they are not racially charged since masters and slaves has occurred in basically all societies through time. Banning the words because of american politics is absurd. I hate the modern american politics, I am not an american and I do not want it in my life. By doing this, Django forces everyone to think about this and you have to be extremely sensitive if this is what you go around and think/worry about. What else will they do in the future? Ban people from using Django for certain stuff etc? Surely it would be forked etc, but forks rarely works out great in the long run.
        vertex-four 8y ago
        > Most secular and democratic societies has agreed to a standard that I defend. Cool. But that’s your politics, and not necessarily everybody’s, and to have a different political position from you is not inherently morally wrong. We could argue about whether or not the status quo is fine, but that’s not the point - the point is simply that taking the status quo as acceptable is a political position which you’re subjecting others to, and your defence of it to the point of refusing to use software that does not back the status quo doubly so. Or, in other words, you’re not for getting politics out of software - you’re for getting politics that you don’t agree with out of software.
- mlevental 8y ago
  really? which operating system are you on? if you didn't write it yourself then it's not apolitical. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_personal_is_political https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_personal_is_political
- Scarblac 8y ago
  Then you're letting yourself be hurt by your political views. The Django developers try to include the absolutely widest range of people they can. But if that makes people decide to exclude themselves, that's not Django's problem IMO.
  - ecmascript 8y ago
    Well yes, maybe. Maybe not. I think this is not about inclusion though, this is about exclusion of people who think like me.
- chickenfries 8y ago
  Do you not use anything from the GNU project because of their politics?
  - ecmascript 8y ago
    What politics do they enforce on me by using their products?
    - chickenfries 8y ago
      Free software is a political movement. Calling it “free” was a political choice to convince people that proprietary software is “unfree”. I really don’t know where to begin explaining this...
      - ecmascript 8y ago
        Well yes, but they are not policing speech as far as I know. I have nothing against people/projects being political, it's when a specific political view that I do not agree with gets enforced upon me that the issue arises.
        airstrike 8y ago
        Companies and institutions have every right to define what is acceptable speech in their own universes And freedom of speech isn't an absolute right – not even in the U.S., but even less so in pretty much any other advanced Western democracy.
- sergiotapia 8y ago
  I feel the exact same way about Rust for what it's worth. Turned me off the language completely.
  - ecmascript 8y ago
    Why do you feel this way about Rust? Glad to hear I'm not alone anyway ;)
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]