7 ms·

You’re right, it is very silly of you. I might even say you’re the one being over sensitive.

by chickenfries 8y ago

sarcasmOrTears 8y ago
Not as sensitive as people downvoting the poor guy's opinion to oblivion
- acomjean 8y ago
  It’s probably not helping that the username is “ecmascript” on a python post. When I first started getting into database I found the terminology a little jarring. I know it’s common and the intention is ok, still not a big fan. But the python community should be ok with renaming things: frankly Lists are just arrays and dictionary’s are hash tables
rat9988 8y ago
Why do you feel the need to attack him? It's not as if he has attacked you personally.
- mlevental 8y ago
  i don't understand the bipolar nature of hn. "don't be afraid to be intellectually honest and say what needs to be said - we're not afraid of hurting people's feelings for the greater good and we're proud of it" and at the same time "be careful you don't say anything that could in the slightest be misinterpreted as impugning someone's character" i feel like i'm taking crazy pills? this is exactly the kind of thing that Nietzsche talked about in geneaology of morals: people in this "community" claim to be above petty politics and egalitarian but as soon as anyone points out anything that even remotely contradicts that image they get silenced or shouted down (e.g. bringing up race or gender politics and their role in the entrepreneur mythology). it's completely within the scope of productive discourse to point out to someone that they're being irrational because no discourse can proceed until a rational framework is established. case in point: a rational discussion of the merits of django cannot begin from "i'm prejudiced against them because they made questionable PR choices". honestly there are so few useful discussions on hn. the tech posts are either PR for yc companies or another js vdom framework and the culture posts are all mostly rehashings of the same neoliberal arguments for capital and culture etc. the few people that try to inject any heterogeneity of thought get vilified.
  - dang 8y ago
    HN isn't a person, it's a distribution of millions of people. If you think of it as a statistical cloud, it won't seem so paradoxical (e.g. "bipolar"). I don't follow your reference to Nietzsche but if it's relevant here, the same point would surely apply to any group. I try not to lose too much sleep over problems with HN that stem from humans in general. It's hard enough to change the few things we can.
    - mlevental 8y ago
      >HN isn't a person, it's a distribution of millions of people. is obvious. what is insidious is the ideology that is preached on almost every controversial thread that papers over that fact.
      - dang 8y ago
        That perception usually seems to be more related to the strength of one's own ideological commitment than to the actual state of the threads. People on each side perceive the community to be biased, and people who are intensely on one side perceive the community to be extremely biased. https://hn.algolia.com/?query=%22hostile%20media%20effect%22&sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0 https://hn.algolia.com/?query=%22hostile%20media%20effect%22...
        mlevental 8y ago
        i'm not going to do a study of the culture of hn because i am not an anthropologist but i have many times responded to comments that were vile, that broke the rules, that did not get flagged because they toed the party line, that were in effect supported by the community https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17032257 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17032257 a selectively enforced set of laws becomes defacto discriminatory and ideological: https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2345&context=dlj https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article...
        8y ago
ecmascript 8y ago
Thanks for proving my point, your mentality is the perfect example of why I think it's great to stay as far away as possible from PC-people :)
- chickenfries 8y ago
  All I did was agree with you.
- Twirrim 8y ago
  You're that much of a snowflake? /s Seriously, life is far too short to waste any time on such drama. Just let it be water under the bridge. You don't care about the master/slave thing, fine. Not using a framework that may or may not allow you to get a thing done cheaper and with less effort, a competitive advantage, just because you disagree on something like this? Okay, I guess you're the one hurting yourself.
  - chickenfries 8y ago
    Imagine migrating your own code to a new framework just to own the libs.
  - ecmascript 8y ago
    Yes, obviously I am. ;) Django is not really the only framework around for rapid web development so I haven't really found any pain so far. I'm not wasting the time on drama, which is exactly why I stopped using Django. I just made a comment here on why I stopped using it. The python community has a history of PC-people ruining it for people: https://adainitiative.org/2014/09/22/why-guido-van-rossum-supports-the-ada-initiative-wears-a-python-is-for-girls-shirt-and-answered-questions-from-only-women-at-pycon-2014/ https://adainitiative.org/2014/09/22/why-guido-van-rossum-su... https://www.cnet.com/news/two-people-fired-over-pycon-dongle-joke/ https://www.cnet.com/news/two-people-fired-over-pycon-dongle... And nowadays jokes aren't allowed on PyCon (https://us.pycon.org/2019/about/code-of-conduct/ https://us.pycon.org/2019/about/code-of-conduct/) from what I assume is after that indicdent lol. But yes, I am the sensitive one that is causing drama ;)

You’re right, it is very silly of you. I might even say you’re the one being over sensitive.

sarcasmOrTears 8y ago

Not as sensitive as people downvoting the poor guy's opinion to oblivion

acomjean 8y ago
It’s probably not helping that the username is “ecmascript” on a python post. When I first started getting into database I found the terminology a little jarring. I know it’s common and the intention is ok, still not a big fan. But the python community should be ok with renaming things: frankly Lists are just arrays and dictionary’s are hash tables

rat9988 8y ago

Why do you feel the need to attack him? It's not as if he has attacked you personally.

mlevental 8y ago
i don't understand the bipolar nature of hn. "don't be afraid to be intellectually honest and say what needs to be said - we're not afraid of hurting people's feelings for the greater good and we're proud of it" and at the same time "be careful you don't say anything that could in the slightest be misinterpreted as impugning someone's character" i feel like i'm taking crazy pills? this is exactly the kind of thing that Nietzsche talked about in geneaology of morals: people in this "community" claim to be above petty politics and egalitarian but as soon as anyone points out anything that even remotely contradicts that image they get silenced or shouted down (e.g. bringing up race or gender politics and their role in the entrepreneur mythology). it's completely within the scope of productive discourse to point out to someone that they're being irrational because no discourse can proceed until a rational framework is established. case in point: a rational discussion of the merits of django cannot begin from "i'm prejudiced against them because they made questionable PR choices". honestly there are so few useful discussions on hn. the tech posts are either PR for yc companies or another js vdom framework and the culture posts are all mostly rehashings of the same neoliberal arguments for capital and culture etc. the few people that try to inject any heterogeneity of thought get vilified.
- dang 8y ago
  HN isn't a person, it's a distribution of millions of people. If you think of it as a statistical cloud, it won't seem so paradoxical (e.g. "bipolar"). I don't follow your reference to Nietzsche but if it's relevant here, the same point would surely apply to any group. I try not to lose too much sleep over problems with HN that stem from humans in general. It's hard enough to change the few things we can.
  - mlevental 8y ago
    >HN isn't a person, it's a distribution of millions of people. is obvious. what is insidious is the ideology that is preached on almost every controversial thread that papers over that fact.
    - dang 8y ago
      That perception usually seems to be more related to the strength of one's own ideological commitment than to the actual state of the threads. People on each side perceive the community to be biased, and people who are intensely on one side perceive the community to be extremely biased. https://hn.algolia.com/?query=%22hostile%20media%20effect%22&sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0 https://hn.algolia.com/?query=%22hostile%20media%20effect%22...
      - mlevental 8y ago
        i'm not going to do a study of the culture of hn because i am not an anthropologist but i have many times responded to comments that were vile, that broke the rules, that did not get flagged because they toed the party line, that were in effect supported by the community https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17032257 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17032257 a selectively enforced set of laws becomes defacto discriminatory and ideological: https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2345&context=dlj https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article...
        8y ago

ecmascript 8y ago

Thanks for proving my point, your mentality is the perfect example of why I think it's great to stay as far away as possible from PC-people :)

chickenfries 8y ago
All I did was agree with you.
Twirrim 8y ago
You're that much of a snowflake? /s Seriously, life is far too short to waste any time on such drama. Just let it be water under the bridge. You don't care about the master/slave thing, fine. Not using a framework that may or may not allow you to get a thing done cheaper and with less effort, a competitive advantage, just because you disagree on something like this? Okay, I guess you're the one hurting yourself.
- chickenfries 8y ago
  Imagine migrating your own code to a new framework just to own the libs.
- ecmascript 8y ago
  Yes, obviously I am. ;) Django is not really the only framework around for rapid web development so I haven't really found any pain so far. I'm not wasting the time on drama, which is exactly why I stopped using Django. I just made a comment here on why I stopped using it. The python community has a history of PC-people ruining it for people: https://adainitiative.org/2014/09/22/why-guido-van-rossum-supports-the-ada-initiative-wears-a-python-is-for-girls-shirt-and-answered-questions-from-only-women-at-pycon-2014/ https://adainitiative.org/2014/09/22/why-guido-van-rossum-su... https://www.cnet.com/news/two-people-fired-over-pycon-dongle-joke/ https://www.cnet.com/news/two-people-fired-over-pycon-dongle... And nowadays jokes aren't allowed on PyCon (https://us.pycon.org/2019/about/code-of-conduct/ https://us.pycon.org/2019/about/code-of-conduct/) from what I assume is after that indicdent lol. But yes, I am the sensitive one that is causing drama ;)