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China warned others not to attend UN meeting on Xinjiang human rights violations
- pleasecalllater 8y agoI'm wondering if people in China can see this website in Google. Edit: to people who are downvoting this... check this thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19540562 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19540562
- excalibur 8y agoNot anymore!
- chapium 8y agoPeople aren't downvoting this within 7 minutes of you posting.
- thrwwy190401 8y ago>People aren't downvoting this within 7 minutes of you posting. Obviously they are, or OP wouldn't have added that edit. You can see your comment scores (as you know.) Interestingly, I just read that China employs people to influence social media. (Which Hacker News would fall under, I guess.) What I read was this, I'll quote it in full: >China does this with its 50 >Cent Party: people hired by the government to >post comments on social networking sites >supporting, and to challenge comments >opposing, party positions. This is from a book on privacy by a famous author. It would be interesting to know if the people mentioned post to HN.
- floren 8y agoThe recent story about Apple disabling their News app in China got flagged over and over in the first hour or so, but I don't know if that was wumao or Apple fans doing it for free :)
- dang 8y agoPlease don't break the site guideline which asks you not to insinuate astroturfing on HN. See my recent explanation at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19538691 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19538691. Plenty more at https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=by:dang%20astroturfing https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme....
- thrwwy190401 8y agomy apologies. thank you for the informative link.
- pleasecalllater 8y agoWell, it got downvoted in the first 2 minutes.
- JohnWilcox 8y agoI wonder if YC readers can see this comment due to YC censorship. But to answer your question; it was recently shown that hundreds of millions of Chinese had never even heard of Tiananmen Square, let alone ever seen the picture that is iconic in the west through it's propaganda. But to be fair, look in the mirror, folks. As we wag our fingers at China, the is currently doing exactly the same thing as the strangle hold of authoritarian thought control cinches up ever tighter. Only in the west it is taking an ever more pernicious and, in many ways, more lasting form; when, e.g., Twitter (Muslim controlled), Reddit (Chinese controlled), Facebook (global domination of all of humanity inspired), YC (foreign national and Indian and deranged liberal VC tech tyrant controlled), Google (beholden and submissive to China), etc. all censor what they deem heretical and use the very same types of tactics against the wrongthinkers. Just saying something here that is not glowing about "immigration", aka, the disposition of wealth and control over one's society in order to shatter democracy and the middle class and to advantage, empower, and enrich the wealthy at the expense of regular people through bribes and the plundering by foreigners ... the soldiers of the wealthy elite trying to destroy democracy and the middle class exactly as they are doing.
- sidibe 8y agoPeople in China can't see Google. People here have it so backwards about which companies are most cooperative with China
- wavepruner 8y agoYes it's quite bizarre that HN is so anti-Google in this issue. Only tech companies that cooperate with China exist in China. Google tried to stand their ground for years and was completely banned. Google being completely banned in China doesn't do anyone any good. A censored Google is better than no Google.
- wavepruner 8y agoWhy the down-vote? Isn't the absence of Google a more totalitarian form of censorship than some access to Google?
- yorwba 8y agoThat thread is about Google Ads. If Chinese people can see Google Search, they're using a VPN and can see that website. Without VPN, on the other hand, it has been blocked by the Great Firewall since at least 2015: https://en.greatfire.org/https/www.hongkongfp.com https://en.greatfire.org/https/www.hongkongfp.com
- Causality1 8y agoA few decades of international trade does wonders for making the rest of the world forget what kind of an entity China is. This is the beginning of an Asian holocaust and nobody gives a damn because what's a couple million poor people in a country of over a billion?
- ElBarto 8y agoYou should be careful about the terms you use. Some terms should not be overused because overuse trivialises.
- xkcd-sucks 8y agoThe point here is to evoke comparison with 1930s Germany, which expanded into neighboring territory and systematically imprisioned minorities. Hopefully China changes direction before it becomes 1940s Germany
- ElBarto 8y agoThis is a ridiculous comparison. China is not expanding and does not systematically imprison minorities (and as you know the holocaust is in another league altogether). The point of my previous comment is also to avoid such comparisons that are unhelpful, to say the least. Don't overuse those terms (holocaust, nazi, etc)
- devmunchies 8y agousing the term "holocaust" is a comparison? Nobody has a monopoly on that term.
- samch 8y agoChina is looking to expand. China already took Tibet. It claims Taiwan. Now, it’s making audacious claims over the South China Sea - even going so far as to build artificial islands to cement their claims.
- oxycontinOD 8y agoA painful but important reminder about Lu Guang, a photojournalist captured by the goverment for taking photos of the damage suffered by countryman (and nature) due pollution from chinese factories: https://imgur.com/gallery/XwzByK7 https://imgur.com/gallery/XwzByK7 Something needs to be done, I'm not sure what but inaction will only aggravate the situation.
- simonh 8y agoI really do appreciate the sentiment, but with an authoritarian regime like this there's isn't an awful lot other nations can practically do that would actually make a difference. Just look at North Korea, it's under total economic lock-down but still continues along on it's brutally oppressive way. It's not that I'm happy about it, any suggestions welcome.
- megous 8y agoWe can't possibly know. Different countries have different cultures and histories. It might also be that resulting slump in economic output would incite revolts.
- abc-xyz 8y agoAt this point I'd say the goal should be to isolate China and make them suffer economically.. We can see what they've done to the people of Tibet, Hong Kong, Xijiang, those practicing Falun Gong and so many more. They're also stepping up their efforts of conquering Taiwan and the South China Sea.. the world can't keep turning a blind eye as their influence continue to grow.
- boomboomsubban 8y agoSuffering economically will likely lead to far more suffering for various Chinese people, and the end result has a good chance of being a civil war. Is this worth preventing their influence from growing? Who benefits from it?
- 8y ago
- byteofprash 8y agoChina's gleaming hypocrisy: On one side they continue to shield Masood Azhar, a person classified as terrorist by all major powers in the UNSC, to appease their all weather friends Pakistan. On the other side they run "re-education" camps for Muslims on their soil.
- sleazy_b 8y agoI think we will see what is happening to the Uighurs now as a genocide in that it is an intentional destruction of a culture and people. I'm not sure what can be done when a country so powerful as China is the perpetrator but it's pretty terrible to watch as it is happening.
- chaostheory 8y agoWhat is happening in Xinjiang is terrible, but let's be more specific. What's happening is a more intense version of 'reverse genocide' and NOT ethnic cleansing (which is what a generic label of 'genocide' implies). What's reverse genocide? It's when you when you proactively encourage assimilation by intermarriage with Han Chinese (where the family will become Han in culture & treatment by Chinese society) and through the encouragement of mass migration of Han Chinese. This is what has happened with both Mongolia and Tibet and it's worked. When that doesn't work or is too slow, what you get is what's happening in Xinjiang where people are either 'assisted' to assimilate with the help of Han babysitters, or put in brainwashing camps which echoes the Cultural Revolution. As horrific as it all is, it still not as terrible as past campaigns of trying to achieve some form of "genetic purity" that's happened in other countries outside of China. > I'm not sure what can be done when a country What are you willing to personally give up? Are you willing to pay more for trinkets and electronics? e.g. A very conservative estimate would probably add another $100 to the price of an iPhone. See a similar increase across many if not most products. Are you willing for our economy to take a hit (i.e. financial instability, temporary job losses, ...)? As much as I dislike and disagree with Trump & his policies, I may disagree with his execution of confronting China, but not with its general idea.
- yorwba 8y ago> It's when you when you proactively encourage assimilation by intermarriage with Han Chinese How is it encouraged? I was under the impression that Uyghurs and other minority peoples aren't considered to be desirable marriage partners by most Han Chinese.
- chaostheory 8y ago
- Brain_Thief 8y agoI say this kind of thing a lot, but I feel compelled to repeat myself. It seems like every week brings more evidence of oppressive governments edging ever closer toward a full-on 1984 nightmare scenario. At this point the decision tree facing privacy activists, those concerned with human rights, and those who support the expansion of western moral aspirations is unambiguous. Are you uncomfortable with China's aggressive censorship, human rights abuses, and surveillance? Stop buying shit from them. Stop using their software. Nine times out of ten you don't need it. Don't support corporations that enhance the efficiency of the Chinese government's oppression in the name of profits. Don't accept the idea that it's okay for giant corporations to bend to whatever demands (however ominous) an authoritarian government hands to them in the name of profit. Exceptions arise, and no one's behavior is perfect. But the 1/10 case where you absolutely MUST use a certain surveillance app or buy a certain widget made by slaves in another country is not an excuse for throwing your hands up and capitulating in the other nine cases you encounter every day. Many of us on HN have the option to not support oppressive systems - I implore you to exercise that option so that others may gain the ability to choose as well.
- true_religion 8y agoWould you support a general government embargo on Chinese trade in your country?
- noir_lord 8y agoI absolutely would and not just because of the way China treats it's citizens - putting all the global production of strategically important electronics in the hands of one country with a proven track record of well..almost everything seems like a fairly poor idea.
- skybrian 8y agoThis is far too large a problem for individual buying decisions to make much of a dent. But if you're against trade, maybe tariffs will do it?
- 8y ago
- endorphone 8y agoChina has begun quite a campaign of rogue diplomacy, a good example being the continued saga of Canada abiding by its treaty with the United States and holding Meng Wanzhou for due process of an extradition for charges laid in the US. In retaliation China has jailed a number of Canadians on invented charges and are now leveraging trade in a farcical manner, claiming that Canadian products are contaminated (which is rich coming from China) to try to lever the government.
- zanny 8y agoRule of law vs rule of Xi Jinping.
- mips_avatar 8y agoChina is rule of law when convenient.
- devoply 8y agoThey even killed a Canadian. In a future where China is dominant you can just tell that they learned diplomacy from Americans... where they basically act like the mafia. And really much effort should be put to restrain them as it's going to be a disaster for world peace and human rights.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- mirimir 8y agoAs much as I tend to hate on China for its extreme policies of government censorship and social control, it's somewhat disingenuous to tar them for lobbying (even ~threatening) other UN diplomats. I mean, doesn't ~everyone do it? Having been interested in the Palestinian issue, and the build-up to the invasion of Iraq, it's pretty clear that Israel and the US have done just what China is doing. And no, this isn't whataboutism. I'm calling bullshit on the US etc for "pot calling the kettle black" bullshit. Also, although I'm not a huge fan of cultural relativism, it is true that Chinese culture is very old, and very different from European culture. Including the US and other former colonies, obviously. But maybe not so much from India and other former colonies in Southeast Asia. But anyway, given that, what's the argument that we're "right" and they're "wrong"? Because God said so? But which God, then?
- devoply 8y agoThe god of humanism and human rights. We are right and Chinese are wrong for oppressing their own people with what amounts to racism and fascist nationalism.
- mirimir 8y agoOK, but why does our god beat their god? Their god is a fuck of a lot older ;) Is it just because we can? And that we'll kick their ass hard enough and long enough that they worship our god? That's cool, I guess. But we ought at least be honest about it. And what if we can't? What then?
- devoply 8y agoTheir God was invented by Marx, Mao, Fascism, and Capitalism. This has nothing to do with Confucianism or Buddhism or Taoism.
- mirimir 8y agoSo you say. But I've heard even vaguely liberal Chinese argue differently. And seriously, have you actually read Confucius? Or the Yi Jing? Concepts like social benefit trumping individual freedom, and respect for authority, go back a long way. Fascism and Communism are relatively modern European inventions. Even Chinese Communism, at its peak, was never anything like what Marx and Engels imagined. Although they talked about social evolution, they were fundamentally operating in the context of individual freedom.
- FabHK 8y agoBy the way, great to see the Hong Kong Free Press on the HN front page. It's an independent, non-profit newspaper financed primarily by reader donations. Hong Kong has basically only 3 English-language newspapers left: South China Morning Post ([1], since 1903, but now owned by the mainland Alibaba group), The Standard ([2], free, ad-financed), and HKFP. Given the encroaching Chinese influence on HK (contra the Sino-British Joint Declaration and the "One Country, Two Systems" principle [3], which specify wide ranging autonomy of HK on internal matters until 2047), a free press in HK is enormously important to safeguard HK's freedoms. (If you care about it, please support the HK Free Press! (I'm not affiliated.) Here:) https://www.hongkongfp.com/support-hong-kong-free-press-2019-hk1-2m-funding-drive/ https://www.hongkongfp.com/support-hong-kong-free-press-2019... [1] https://www.scmp.com https://www.scmp.com [2] http://www.thestandard.com.hk http://www.thestandard.com.hk [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_country,_two_systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_country,_two_systems EDIT: typos, add "One Country, Two Systems"
- jplayer01 8y agoUh, wait. What happens in 2047? Is HK screwed then?
- FabHK 8y agoIt reverts wholly to China, and becomes a Chinese city like any other. No more separate economic system, political system, currency, immigration, press, etc. But China is basically pre-empting that by gradually tightening the screws already. One of the factors (together with massive inequality and diminishing economic opportunities) leading to the 2014 umbrella protests.