5 ms·

I agree! As a man, you're in for a really hard dating life (and life in general as a result) if you're relying on these apps. Meeting women in person, an increa

by 86carr 8y ago

I agree! As a man, you're in for a really hard dating life (and life in general as a result) if you're relying on these apps. Meeting women in person, an increasingly rare opportunity, is far more likely to result in a positive outcome. At some level I hold the apps them selves responsible. I think they create some kind of negative loop in the dating world. I don't believe the results of these apps are a net positive for society but my perception is colored.

0db532a0 8y ago
It's not a negative loop at all. This is now how the market works. The task is to be aware of how it works and to use it to your advantage as far as you can.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  I mean yeah, you can exploit it to your benefit by going full pickup artist with your profile(s) but that's a) a lot of work if you're just trying to get normal dates and b) generally frowned upon in polite society.
  - 0db532a0 8y ago
    This isn't about whether you go full peacock fedora pickup artist. The thing I would like to emphasise is that each side knows the deal. Women are provably better at festooning the deal in the presence of other men, but the deal remains. This includes "normal" dates. I can't know what sort of girls you are generally around, but I was with a group of girls the other night, who were comparing their recent Tinder matches and fucks with each other. They were not talking any differently about the guys they'd met to how men are generally portrayed to talk about women, including size appraisals of varied body parts. On the polite society comment, each gender is just as calculating as the other. From my experience, this fact does not change particularly based on education level, though the festooning around it might well. A girl who really has no prospects of a quick fuck might indeed be more inclined to settle for what you would be implying with a normal date. The same goes for for guys in a similar bracket as well.
  - armitron 8y ago
    Going full pickup artist does not generally work if you are physically unattractive (mainly based on face and height if you go by what various studies have shown). Dating apps have utterly decimated dating for a big percentage of the young population - that did not win the genetic lottery - and exposed various strong biases and conditioning in the female sex [1]. The following was deleted since many expressed fears that it would further fuel "incel culture" not to mention it's bad for business, but I managed to find it on archive.org. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20170330131859/https://theblog.okcupid.com/your-looks-and-your-inbox-8715c0f1561e https://web.archive.org/web/20170330131859/https://theblog.o...
    - 0db532a0 8y ago
      That's quite an interesting analysis. On OKCupid women shift their attractiveness expectations only slightly ahead of the curve when compared with men. OKCupid is generally accepted to be more of a long-term thing than the alternatives. I predict that this does not apply to Tinder and Hinge.
      - Kalium 8y ago
        Bear in mind that that post was 2009, and Tinder launched in 2012.
  - everdrive 8y ago
    It's also bad if you're actually interested in finding someone to actually date seriously. Do you want someone who falls for your act?
    - 0db532a0 8y ago
      Kundera: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laughable_Loves https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laughable_Loves Nietzsche: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/24702467-aphorisms-on-love-and-hate https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/24702467-aphorisms-on-lo... Houellebecq: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomised https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomised Bukowski: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/38500.Women https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/38500.Women Kundera: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unbearable_Lightness_of_Being https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unbearable_Lightness_of_Be...
      - everdrive 8y ago
        I appreciate the reading list, but wouldn't mind more clarity. Why do you suggest these readings in particular? Anyhow, I've only read Women from the list. The book seemed to be a male perspective about women. Bukowski doesn't know why they prefer what they do, or why he would be attractive to them. He doesn't know how to get involved with them without some degree of harm or drama either. A great book, but how do you feel it relates to the conversation at hand?
        0db532a0 8y ago
        These books have reinforced my belief that all relationships are transactional. Why should romantic relationships be the exception? They have reinforced my belief that romance is something made up by guys for guys, that women gladly play into the romantic ideal to their own ends, and that by focussing on finding an interesting woman to date seriously as an end in itself, you lose that woman. It’s a lost cause. I don’t mean this negatively or positively.
        everdrive 8y ago
blablabla123 8y ago
> Meeting women in person, an increasingly rare opportunity, is far more likely to result in a positive outcome. Yeah, it will take another 100 years until women are hired 50:50 into engineering jobs. Or probably so many jobs.
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  I thought the new school of thought was never, ever attempt to date a colleague. Too much risk, even in considering.
  - jsilence 8y ago
    Yeah, you could also hang out with your actually funny and interesting female colleague and meet her female engineering college friends. In pre online dating times you'd meet people by physically hanging out in groups, having fun and eventually meeting other friends. Good times. Y'all should try it eventually.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - toomuchtodo 8y ago
      And have your after hours discussions and activities now possibly jeopardize your job if something is misinterpreted? Not even once.
      - Frondo 8y ago
        I think the risk of this is widely exaggerated. I have had many, many long and interesting conversations with women colleagues, and there's never been any risk of anything being misinterpreted, because I: * don't joke about how I would like to date them (because I don't want to and it isn't a good joke), * don't suggest that we should meet in places that would be appropriate for dating (romantic restaurant, one of our places, quiet bar, etc), * don't joke about having sex with people (because those aren't good jokes and I wouldn't discuss having sex with people who aren't close friends), * don't talk about or joke about pornography. Carving out that handful of broad exceptions of things I don't discuss with colleagues (men or women) leaves a huge amount of things to discuss -- and places to discuss them -- that aren't really open to misinterpretation. I also don't think most women want to call out their coworkers, because of the intense social scrutiny turned back on them when they do so, even when their initial calling-out was warranted.

by 86carr 8y ago

0db532a0 8y ago

It's not a negative loop at all. This is now how the market works. The task is to be aware of how it works and to use it to your advantage as far as you can.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago
I mean yeah, you can exploit it to your benefit by going full pickup artist with your profile(s) but that's a) a lot of work if you're just trying to get normal dates and b) generally frowned upon in polite society.
- 0db532a0 8y ago
  This isn't about whether you go full peacock fedora pickup artist. The thing I would like to emphasise is that each side knows the deal. Women are provably better at festooning the deal in the presence of other men, but the deal remains. This includes "normal" dates. I can't know what sort of girls you are generally around, but I was with a group of girls the other night, who were comparing their recent Tinder matches and fucks with each other. They were not talking any differently about the guys they'd met to how men are generally portrayed to talk about women, including size appraisals of varied body parts. On the polite society comment, each gender is just as calculating as the other. From my experience, this fact does not change particularly based on education level, though the festooning around it might well. A girl who really has no prospects of a quick fuck might indeed be more inclined to settle for what you would be implying with a normal date. The same goes for for guys in a similar bracket as well.
- armitron 8y ago
  Going full pickup artist does not generally work if you are physically unattractive (mainly based on face and height if you go by what various studies have shown). Dating apps have utterly decimated dating for a big percentage of the young population - that did not win the genetic lottery - and exposed various strong biases and conditioning in the female sex [1]. The following was deleted since many expressed fears that it would further fuel "incel culture" not to mention it's bad for business, but I managed to find it on archive.org. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20170330131859/https://theblog.okcupid.com/your-looks-and-your-inbox-8715c0f1561e https://web.archive.org/web/20170330131859/https://theblog.o...
  - 0db532a0 8y ago
    That's quite an interesting analysis. On OKCupid women shift their attractiveness expectations only slightly ahead of the curve when compared with men. OKCupid is generally accepted to be more of a long-term thing than the alternatives. I predict that this does not apply to Tinder and Hinge.
    - Kalium 8y ago
      Bear in mind that that post was 2009, and Tinder launched in 2012.
- everdrive 8y ago
  It's also bad if you're actually interested in finding someone to actually date seriously. Do you want someone who falls for your act?
  - 0db532a0 8y ago
    Kundera: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laughable_Loves https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laughable_Loves Nietzsche: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/24702467-aphorisms-on-love-and-hate https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/24702467-aphorisms-on-lo... Houellebecq: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomised https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomised Bukowski: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/38500.Women https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/38500.Women Kundera: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unbearable_Lightness_of_Being https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unbearable_Lightness_of_Be...
    - everdrive 8y ago
      I appreciate the reading list, but wouldn't mind more clarity. Why do you suggest these readings in particular? Anyhow, I've only read Women from the list. The book seemed to be a male perspective about women. Bukowski doesn't know why they prefer what they do, or why he would be attractive to them. He doesn't know how to get involved with them without some degree of harm or drama either. A great book, but how do you feel it relates to the conversation at hand?
      - 0db532a0 8y ago
        These books have reinforced my belief that all relationships are transactional. Why should romantic relationships be the exception? They have reinforced my belief that romance is something made up by guys for guys, that women gladly play into the romantic ideal to their own ends, and that by focussing on finding an interesting woman to date seriously as an end in itself, you lose that woman. It’s a lost cause. I don’t mean this negatively or positively.
        everdrive 8y ago

blablabla123 8y ago

> Meeting women in person, an increasingly rare opportunity, is far more likely to result in a positive outcome. Yeah, it will take another 100 years until women are hired 50:50 into engineering jobs. Or probably so many jobs.

toomuchtodo 8y ago
I thought the new school of thought was never, ever attempt to date a colleague. Too much risk, even in considering.
- jsilence 8y ago
  Yeah, you could also hang out with your actually funny and interesting female colleague and meet her female engineering college friends. In pre online dating times you'd meet people by physically hanging out in groups, having fun and eventually meeting other friends. Good times. Y'all should try it eventually.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    And have your after hours discussions and activities now possibly jeopardize your job if something is misinterpreted? Not even once.
    - Frondo 8y ago
      I think the risk of this is widely exaggerated. I have had many, many long and interesting conversations with women colleagues, and there's never been any risk of anything being misinterpreted, because I: * don't joke about how I would like to date them (because I don't want to and it isn't a good joke), * don't suggest that we should meet in places that would be appropriate for dating (romantic restaurant, one of our places, quiet bar, etc), * don't joke about having sex with people (because those aren't good jokes and I wouldn't discuss having sex with people who aren't close friends), * don't talk about or joke about pornography. Carving out that handful of broad exceptions of things I don't discuss with colleagues (men or women) leaves a huge amount of things to discuss -- and places to discuss them -- that aren't really open to misinterpretation. I also don't think most women want to call out their coworkers, because of the intense social scrutiny turned back on them when they do so, even when their initial calling-out was warranted.