4 ms·

wow, pretty damning report. initially it sounded like a cool platform to me. Nokia should just drop Meego and throw in with android while they are still profit

by bryanwb 16y ago

wow, pretty damning report. initially it sounded like a cool platform to me. Nokia should just drop Meego and throw in with android while they are still profitable.

danieldk 16y ago
Using Android would put them in direct competition with (very) low-margin Chinese manufacturers. This is what Apple got right: if you have your own operating system and ecosystem nailed down correctly, people do not mind paying larger margins, and you are in a different game. I guess this is what Nokia is aiming for with Meego. But, despite the excellent work of the Qt trolls, it doesn't really seem to get off the ground...
- Tichy 16y ago
  I think Nokia is already capable of producing phones cheaply, in good quality. For all I know, they even might have some factories in China already. As an Android fan, I can only say: all I want is a really good Android device. Some are good enough (Nexus One), but there is still room for improvement. And Nokia probably would be able to pull it off. It is very unlikely that they'll go that route, unfortunately.
- thingie 16y ago
  There is almost nothing to get off the ground yet… Running meego on some cheap netbook is meaningless, I can put anything there and I'm going to use it in the same way, I want some tablet or smartphone form device.
- metageek 16y ago
  Yeah, but it worked for Apple only because they were first (more or less). Nokia can't go that way. Their only hope is to adopt a successful OS and produce top-notch phones.
  - fhars 16y ago
    Nokia has always produced top notch phones. Their only problem is that it looks like they couldn't write decent software for phones if their life depended on it (randomly shuffling browser bookmarks every time I open the IMAP-client? Come /on/...) Sent from my Nokia E sixtysomething or other.
    - metageek 16y ago
      Right, that's my point--I've been using Nokias since 2001. If they built an Android phone, its phone bits could be dramatically more usable than stock Android.
  - protomyth 16y ago
    The number of cellphones that are actually running Android, iOS, Blackberry, WP7, etc. compared to the total number cellphones is very small. Nokia has a lot of room to get market share for a competing OS. Also, if the average user of the above OSes does not download a lot of apps for that platform, the stickiness of the platform is reduced and Nokia could benefit if it could come up with a coherent OS / developer strategy.
- ergo98 16y ago
  Using Android would put them in direct competition with (very) low-margin Chinese manufacturers. This is the "Android is the race for the bottom" argument. It is perplexing how it keeps getting a free pass on here. Nonetheless, for the sake of argument let's go with the notion that Android really is the domain of "(very) low-margin Chinese manufacturers" (ignore that the top selling devices are high-end devices like the Droid X, Galaxy S, Desire Z, etc), would having their own OS really defend Nokia from competing with them? Of course it wouldn't. Android isn't taking marketshare from Android -- it's taking it from every other maker. You can't stick your head in the sand and pretend that somehow that helps your margins. Consumers generally consider every other option available out there. This is what Apple got right: if you have your own operating system and ecosystem nailed down correctly, people do not mind paying larger margins, and you are in a different game. It's interesting to consider that in the PC space Apple used to control their own hardware, even developing their own chips. It was a disaster. Now they use commodity hardware with a glossy shine, and it has dramatically helped their bottom line: They differentiate on top of the common, and that is their secret to success. This is almost entirely the case with the iPhone as well, where the processor is made by Samsung, the wireless chipset by broadcom, the screen by various manufacturers, etc. The whole "the iPhone model proves the case" analysis is a profound example of a confirmation bias. You can't throw a corpse without finding a dozen counter-examples where such a "go your own way" model was an absolute, unabated disaster (including about 90% of Apple's existence), yet somehow that conclusion keeps getting restated like it's a scientific fact. It's absurdity.
  - danieldk 16y ago
    It's absurdity. No, it's not. There are always counterexamples, but in your argument you completely ignore margins in the PC and laptop market. The vast majority of laptop and PCs are sold at low margins. Since most manufacturers cannot compete one software, they compete on price. One of the few vendors that makes large margins has its own operating system. Of course, Macs are nice hardware-wise, but most people will switch 'because it is not Windows'. This doesn't mean that every company differentiating on software-succeeds. ignore that the top selling devices are high-end devices like the Droid X, Galaxy S, Desire Z, etc The smartphone market is relatively small and new, as is Android. The race to the bottom has just started.
- sdfghjkjhg 16y ago
  Like using Windows would put HP in a race with chinese PC clone makers - that's why they stuck to selling HPUX and VMS.
- flogic 16y ago
  I'm not sure there is enough room in the high end market for anyone other than Apple. I don't think the new tablet market is going to be nearly as tolerant of fragmentation as the phone market.
blub 16y ago
Haven't really seen anything concrete in that article, so I wouldn't be quick to judge. It's mostly based on reading moods and hunches.

by bryanwb 16y ago

wow, pretty damning report. initially it sounded like a cool platform to me. Nokia should just drop Meego and throw in with android while they are still profitable.

danieldk 16y ago

Using Android would put them in direct competition with (very) low-margin Chinese manufacturers. This is what Apple got right: if you have your own operating system and ecosystem nailed down correctly, people do not mind paying larger margins, and you are in a different game. I guess this is what Nokia is aiming for with Meego. But, despite the excellent work of the Qt trolls, it doesn't really seem to get off the ground...

Tichy 16y ago
I think Nokia is already capable of producing phones cheaply, in good quality. For all I know, they even might have some factories in China already. As an Android fan, I can only say: all I want is a really good Android device. Some are good enough (Nexus One), but there is still room for improvement. And Nokia probably would be able to pull it off. It is very unlikely that they'll go that route, unfortunately.
thingie 16y ago
There is almost nothing to get off the ground yet… Running meego on some cheap netbook is meaningless, I can put anything there and I'm going to use it in the same way, I want some tablet or smartphone form device.
metageek 16y ago
Yeah, but it worked for Apple only because they were first (more or less). Nokia can't go that way. Their only hope is to adopt a successful OS and produce top-notch phones.
- fhars 16y ago
  Nokia has always produced top notch phones. Their only problem is that it looks like they couldn't write decent software for phones if their life depended on it (randomly shuffling browser bookmarks every time I open the IMAP-client? Come /on/...) Sent from my Nokia E sixtysomething or other.
  - metageek 16y ago
    Right, that's my point--I've been using Nokias since 2001. If they built an Android phone, its phone bits could be dramatically more usable than stock Android.
- protomyth 16y ago
  The number of cellphones that are actually running Android, iOS, Blackberry, WP7, etc. compared to the total number cellphones is very small. Nokia has a lot of room to get market share for a competing OS. Also, if the average user of the above OSes does not download a lot of apps for that platform, the stickiness of the platform is reduced and Nokia could benefit if it could come up with a coherent OS / developer strategy.
ergo98 16y ago
Using Android would put them in direct competition with (very) low-margin Chinese manufacturers. This is the "Android is the race for the bottom" argument. It is perplexing how it keeps getting a free pass on here. Nonetheless, for the sake of argument let's go with the notion that Android really is the domain of "(very) low-margin Chinese manufacturers" (ignore that the top selling devices are high-end devices like the Droid X, Galaxy S, Desire Z, etc), would having their own OS really defend Nokia from competing with them? Of course it wouldn't. Android isn't taking marketshare from Android -- it's taking it from every other maker. You can't stick your head in the sand and pretend that somehow that helps your margins. Consumers generally consider every other option available out there. This is what Apple got right: if you have your own operating system and ecosystem nailed down correctly, people do not mind paying larger margins, and you are in a different game. It's interesting to consider that in the PC space Apple used to control their own hardware, even developing their own chips. It was a disaster. Now they use commodity hardware with a glossy shine, and it has dramatically helped their bottom line: They differentiate on top of the common, and that is their secret to success. This is almost entirely the case with the iPhone as well, where the processor is made by Samsung, the wireless chipset by broadcom, the screen by various manufacturers, etc. The whole "the iPhone model proves the case" analysis is a profound example of a confirmation bias. You can't throw a corpse without finding a dozen counter-examples where such a "go your own way" model was an absolute, unabated disaster (including about 90% of Apple's existence), yet somehow that conclusion keeps getting restated like it's a scientific fact. It's absurdity.
- danieldk 16y ago
  It's absurdity. No, it's not. There are always counterexamples, but in your argument you completely ignore margins in the PC and laptop market. The vast majority of laptop and PCs are sold at low margins. Since most manufacturers cannot compete one software, they compete on price. One of the few vendors that makes large margins has its own operating system. Of course, Macs are nice hardware-wise, but most people will switch 'because it is not Windows'. This doesn't mean that every company differentiating on software-succeeds. ignore that the top selling devices are high-end devices like the Droid X, Galaxy S, Desire Z, etc The smartphone market is relatively small and new, as is Android. The race to the bottom has just started.
sdfghjkjhg 16y ago
Like using Windows would put HP in a race with chinese PC clone makers - that's why they stuck to selling HPUX and VMS.
flogic 16y ago
I'm not sure there is enough room in the high end market for anyone other than Apple. I don't think the new tablet market is going to be nearly as tolerant of fragmentation as the phone market.

blub 16y ago

Haven't really seen anything concrete in that article, so I wouldn't be quick to judge. It's mostly based on reading moods and hunches.