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It all comes down to the level of self awarenes and emotional development demonstrated by species. Some primates come close enough to young human children in th

by mamon 8y ago

It all comes down to the level of self awarenes and emotional development demonstrated by species. Some primates come close enough to young human children in that regard to cast at least some doubt, but mice? Yes, we probably shouldn't kill them for fun, but saying that their lives are worth as much as human lives is ridiculous and insulting to all humans.

kranner 8y ago
> It all comes down to the level of self awarenes and emotional development demonstrated by species. Why does it come down to self awareness and emotional development? Because of suffering? Nothing about this is obvious, but I believe (given lack of evidence to the contrary and given that mice and human brains are similar enough) that mice suffer as much as humans. This is my belief -- not an argument intended to convince others. > saying that their lives are worth as much as human lives is ridiculous and insulting to all humans. Anything unconventional is ridiculous. But how is it insulting to humans? Are we supposed to be at the top somehow? This is a religious argument you seem to be making. This is a touchy topic, and I don't think productive discussion will obtain here, so I will not make any further comments in this thread.
- Vinnl 8y ago
  As a bystander to this discussion, though, I should add that I held the same convictions as GP, feeling that it was somehow obvious that you were wrong. When I applied some serious scrutiny to this thought, though, it became a lot less obvious. I say "I" applied scrutiny, but it was basically this book, which I would therefore recommend to anyone reading along: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29380.Animal_Liberation https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29380.Animal_Liberation It might not convince you completely of this point, but it will force you to seriously consider your arguments, and is therefore in my opinion a great intellectual exercise.
- mamon 8y ago
  Some people become vegetarian for this exact reason, but then why stop there? is there a reason to declare life of the plants that you eat less valuable? Stop eating them, these apples or carrots they all have families, dreams, plans for their future. The level of self awareness is pretty much the only thing we can grade life. I might even like mice, but their lives are endless cycle of eat - fuck - sleep - shit. Human lives are much more productive, creative, interesting and therefore more valuable. And all of that starts with self-awareness.

by mamon 8y ago

kranner 8y ago

> It all comes down to the level of self awarenes and emotional development demonstrated by species. Why does it come down to self awareness and emotional development? Because of suffering? Nothing about this is obvious, but I believe (given lack of evidence to the contrary and given that mice and human brains are similar enough) that mice suffer as much as humans. This is my belief -- not an argument intended to convince others. > saying that their lives are worth as much as human lives is ridiculous and insulting to all humans. Anything unconventional is ridiculous. But how is it insulting to humans? Are we supposed to be at the top somehow? This is a religious argument you seem to be making. This is a touchy topic, and I don't think productive discussion will obtain here, so I will not make any further comments in this thread.

Vinnl 8y ago
As a bystander to this discussion, though, I should add that I held the same convictions as GP, feeling that it was somehow obvious that you were wrong. When I applied some serious scrutiny to this thought, though, it became a lot less obvious. I say "I" applied scrutiny, but it was basically this book, which I would therefore recommend to anyone reading along: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29380.Animal_Liberation https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29380.Animal_Liberation It might not convince you completely of this point, but it will force you to seriously consider your arguments, and is therefore in my opinion a great intellectual exercise.
mamon 8y ago
Some people become vegetarian for this exact reason, but then why stop there? is there a reason to declare life of the plants that you eat less valuable? Stop eating them, these apples or carrots they all have families, dreams, plans for their future. The level of self awareness is pretty much the only thing we can grade life. I might even like mice, but their lives are endless cycle of eat - fuck - sleep - shit. Human lives are much more productive, creative, interesting and therefore more valuable. And all of that starts with self-awareness.