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Capital democratization is a topic I've been researching for a while now with regards to new tech startup corporate structure, especially things that fall into

by dluan 8y ago

Capital democratization is a topic I've been researching for a while now with regards to new tech startup corporate structure, especially things that fall into the public good category like FOSS. Co-op's and ESOPs are just one way, but it's about time that we start to experiment with new ownership and governance structures that don't just create more Facebook's and Amazon's. Louis Kelso is the one who notoriously invented and popularized worker-ownership plans in the US, taking inspiration from the US Homestead Act with spreading capital ownership across society. During the cold war, he also used to characterize 'capital democratization' as a third way, separate from capitalism and communism, but mainly just because then neoclassical economists like Samuelson derided his ideas at the time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUf51M9D6sw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUf51M9D6sw

apatters 8y ago
This is a really interesting thing to think about. If we pick on Facebook as an example, most people look at FB and see that it has 2.3 billion customers, then go on to assume it's an amazing and innovative company filled with great people who make the best product in the industry. An alternative point of view is that there are 2.3 billion customers out there for this type of product, and the financial systems and incentives present in our society resulted in Facebook owning all of those customers. FB actually is exemplary of the flaws present in the first mode of thinking. I don't doubt there are many brilliant people working there, but their product is crappy and even user hostile on many levels. Biggest absolutely doesn't translate to best all the time. More likely FB got to where it is because the rules of our society concentrate capital and control (which is exactly what we see going on when we look at data such as wealth disparity, shrinking # of new businesses etc. in the USA over time).
- luckylion 8y ago
  > I don't doubt there are many brilliant people working there, but their product is crappy and even user hostile on many levels. The alternative interpretation is that there are brilliant people working on it and their product is great, the user just isn't the customer. Brilliance doesn't imply ethical behavior ;)
  - apatters 8y ago
    That's true for sure, but it's worth noting that Facebook's actual customers (advertisers) don't like it much either--many outright hate FB for its business practices.
door5 8y ago
>During the cold war, he also used to characterize 'capital democratization' as a third way, separate from capitalism and communism Decentralized workplace democracy was the model in Yugoslavia under communism and in much of China during the Mao era. It was also briefly attempted in the early Soviet Union.

by dluan 8y ago

apatters 8y ago

This is a really interesting thing to think about. If we pick on Facebook as an example, most people look at FB and see that it has 2.3 billion customers, then go on to assume it's an amazing and innovative company filled with great people who make the best product in the industry. An alternative point of view is that there are 2.3 billion customers out there for this type of product, and the financial systems and incentives present in our society resulted in Facebook owning all of those customers. FB actually is exemplary of the flaws present in the first mode of thinking. I don't doubt there are many brilliant people working there, but their product is crappy and even user hostile on many levels. Biggest absolutely doesn't translate to best all the time. More likely FB got to where it is because the rules of our society concentrate capital and control (which is exactly what we see going on when we look at data such as wealth disparity, shrinking # of new businesses etc. in the USA over time).

luckylion 8y ago
> I don't doubt there are many brilliant people working there, but their product is crappy and even user hostile on many levels. The alternative interpretation is that there are brilliant people working on it and their product is great, the user just isn't the customer. Brilliance doesn't imply ethical behavior ;)
- apatters 8y ago
  That's true for sure, but it's worth noting that Facebook's actual customers (advertisers) don't like it much either--many outright hate FB for its business practices.

door5 8y ago

>During the cold war, he also used to characterize 'capital democratization' as a third way, separate from capitalism and communism Decentralized workplace democracy was the model in Yugoslavia under communism and in much of China during the Mao era. It was also briefly attempted in the early Soviet Union.