4 ms·

Here is my take. In long past times, baseballs were reused until warn out, and those that went into the stands were returned. This allowed the balls to get natu

Here is my take. In long past times, baseballs were reused until warn out, and those that went into the stands were returned. This allowed the balls to get naturally bruised up, which inadvertently gave pitchers more (unpredictable) movement than today's clean, unused baseballs. Because of this, old pitchers may not have had to throw with as much elbow rotation as today's pitchers do to get effective levels of movement. This lower spin requirements meant less strain on arms of pitchers, letting them throw more innings and longer games than you typically see in today's baseball. Giving that pitcher's elbows are going out at record frequencies in the MLB in the last decade, I'm all for allowing pitchers to rough up balls some, moreover, enhance it beyond what they can do now. Optimally, I think the league should intentionally texture-ize parts of the ball to give pictures the spin they need, and thus help minimize injury risk.

jrumbut 8y ago
I think the pace they throw the ball at has to have something to do with it now too. Just in the last several years the number of pitchers throwing above 95 and above 100 seems to have dramatically increased. This page suggests the number of 95+ mph fastballs more than doubled in 10 years: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-fast-fastball-isnt-enough-anymore/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-fast-fastball-isnt-en... It could be that making it easier to throw tricky off speed pitches would take the load off of arms (and add some fun variety to the game).
- SubiculumCode 8y ago
  Good point. And I don't think you have to throw 95+ if the ball gives you great movement. At the extreme, look up wiffle ball pitching on youtube; its wild.
  - jrumbut 8y ago
    I was going to say I remember the wiffle curve but I do not remember anything like those YouTube wiffle experts.
- autokad 8y ago
  > "This page suggests the number of 95+ mph fastballs more than doubled in 10 years" if true, pitchers have probably found a way to cheat which hasn't been discovered yet (not that batters aren't cheating either)
  - TheCondor 8y ago
    A way to cheat that adds speed? If you’ve ever paid much attention to some of the big time high schools err “sports academies” in California where they “recruit” from the entire state and more, it’s crazy. We are probably dramatically better at finding and training kids to throw heat.
carboy 8y ago
Ice is causing the injuries. Yes Ice. Growing up in the 60’s my next door neighbor, Eddie, an elderly man, who played semi-pro and a little pro ball. His cousin is Stanley Coveleski, a pitcher who is in the hall of fame, he still holds some World Series records, Stanley’s two brothers were pretty good as well. Anyway, Eddie actually knew most of the greats, Babe, Ty, had a lot of pictures hanging out, playing cards, drinking, barnstorming etc. Eddie told me back in the late 60’s that ice was ruining the arms of pitchers. Eddie was a catcher and for barnstorming trips he got to catch a lot of great pitchers. Eddie said the icing of arms was what was causing pitchers to have so many problems. Eddie said that when you apply ice you stop the healing process, then the stresses and damages don’t get fully repaired, keep repeating and eventually something fails. He predicted that the problem would keep getting worse, because they were starting to have kids ice their arms in little league, creating very unstable arms at an early age. A few years ago the guy who invented the RICE protocol admitted that he had no clinical basis for using ice. He used it because everyone else was using it, and that it was probably doing more harm than good, because the ice was removing the small amount of inflammation, signaling the body to stop the repair. Eddies told me that for kids coming up they should keep them on a pitch count and give them more rest, and never any ice, let the body recover on its own. The body will build up the ligaments and tendons to combat the repeated stress, making recovery faster and easier over time. Because back in the day guys would throw 40 or 50 complete games a year and you can’t do that without having a “gorilla arm”, he said all great pitcher’s pitching arm!looked different than their other arm, you could see the buildup, the arms weren’t bigger just different. Eddie was 75 and could still drop down into a catchers squat and bounce right up, then he’d say, “no ice”. Turns out the guy was right, unless you’ve got compartment syndrome where you have a dangerous swelling problem you should let your body heal itself naturally. The little bit of swelling is your body putting blood and other fluids at the injury site to enact repairs, and using ice do remove those fluids is dumb. It’s like lowering a moderate fever when you are sick, you are compromiseing your bodies ability to fight the infection. Eddie told me that when he felt himself getting sick when he was younger he would go to a sauna and sweat it out, but now that he was older he’s take the hottest bath he could stand for as long as he could stand it. He lived into his 90’s and I never remember him being sick. I do the sauna trick when I’m sick, and it usually drastically reduces the severity and length of the cold or flu.
autokad 8y ago
the spitting one was odd to me, it seems totally natural. for the pine tar, I am with the pitchers again. if batters can use it to have better grip on their bats, seems totally logical for pitchers to do the same to their balls

jrumbut 8y ago

I think the pace they throw the ball at has to have something to do with it now too. Just in the last several years the number of pitchers throwing above 95 and above 100 seems to have dramatically increased. This page suggests the number of 95+ mph fastballs more than doubled in 10 years: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-fast-fastball-isnt-enough-anymore/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-fast-fastball-isnt-en... It could be that making it easier to throw tricky off speed pitches would take the load off of arms (and add some fun variety to the game).

SubiculumCode 8y ago
Good point. And I don't think you have to throw 95+ if the ball gives you great movement. At the extreme, look up wiffle ball pitching on youtube; its wild.
- jrumbut 8y ago
  I was going to say I remember the wiffle curve but I do not remember anything like those YouTube wiffle experts.
autokad 8y ago
> "This page suggests the number of 95+ mph fastballs more than doubled in 10 years" if true, pitchers have probably found a way to cheat which hasn't been discovered yet (not that batters aren't cheating either)
- TheCondor 8y ago
  A way to cheat that adds speed? If you’ve ever paid much attention to some of the big time high schools err “sports academies” in California where they “recruit” from the entire state and more, it’s crazy. We are probably dramatically better at finding and training kids to throw heat.

carboy 8y ago

Ice is causing the injuries. Yes Ice. Growing up in the 60’s my next door neighbor, Eddie, an elderly man, who played semi-pro and a little pro ball. His cousin is Stanley Coveleski, a pitcher who is in the hall of fame, he still holds some World Series records, Stanley’s two brothers were pretty good as well. Anyway, Eddie actually knew most of the greats, Babe, Ty, had a lot of pictures hanging out, playing cards, drinking, barnstorming etc. Eddie told me back in the late 60’s that ice was ruining the arms of pitchers. Eddie was a catcher and for barnstorming trips he got to catch a lot of great pitchers. Eddie said the icing of arms was what was causing pitchers to have so many problems. Eddie said that when you apply ice you stop the healing process, then the stresses and damages don’t get fully repaired, keep repeating and eventually something fails. He predicted that the problem would keep getting worse, because they were starting to have kids ice their arms in little league, creating very unstable arms at an early age. A few years ago the guy who invented the RICE protocol admitted that he had no clinical basis for using ice. He used it because everyone else was using it, and that it was probably doing more harm than good, because the ice was removing the small amount of inflammation, signaling the body to stop the repair. Eddies told me that for kids coming up they should keep them on a pitch count and give them more rest, and never any ice, let the body recover on its own. The body will build up the ligaments and tendons to combat the repeated stress, making recovery faster and easier over time. Because back in the day guys would throw 40 or 50 complete games a year and you can’t do that without having a “gorilla arm”, he said all great pitcher’s pitching arm!looked different than their other arm, you could see the buildup, the arms weren’t bigger just different. Eddie was 75 and could still drop down into a catchers squat and bounce right up, then he’d say, “no ice”. Turns out the guy was right, unless you’ve got compartment syndrome where you have a dangerous swelling problem you should let your body heal itself naturally. The little bit of swelling is your body putting blood and other fluids at the injury site to enact repairs, and using ice do remove those fluids is dumb. It’s like lowering a moderate fever when you are sick, you are compromiseing your bodies ability to fight the infection. Eddie told me that when he felt himself getting sick when he was younger he would go to a sauna and sweat it out, but now that he was older he’s take the hottest bath he could stand for as long as he could stand it. He lived into his 90’s and I never remember him being sick. I do the sauna trick when I’m sick, and it usually drastically reduces the severity and length of the cold or flu.

autokad 8y ago

the spitting one was odd to me, it seems totally natural. for the pine tar, I am with the pitchers again. if batters can use it to have better grip on their bats, seems totally logical for pitchers to do the same to their balls