10 ms·

Ecuador offers WikiLeak's founder Assange residency, no questions asked

95 points by zalew 16y ago

redthrowaway 16y ago
Interesting. Ecuador's current government is quite leftist, and very friendly with Chavez, despite close ties to the US. There used to be a huge US naval base in Manta, although it was closed when I was there this summer. While Internet coverage is spotty enough to disuade permanent residence for someone like Assange, I could see him trying to get some support in South American countries. He's helped by two things: The Internet culture there is still very Wild West, 1998-style, and they absolutely despise the US (with good reason). In fact, the one constant in South America is how much they hate the US, although attitudes toward individual Americans varied.
- rbanffy 16y ago
  > In fact, the one constant in South America is how much they hate the US I am not sure where you have been or what you have experienced, but I wouldn't call it a constant. I never noticed this widespread hatred towards the US you mention in Brazil, Argentina or Chile. I understand most of the northern Latin America may harbor strong negative feelings towards the US, but I can tell you Brazilians really don't care that much. Besides that, it's really childish to hate a country.
  - Gupie 16y ago
    Distance makes the heart grow fonder
  - redthrowaway 16y ago
    Sorry, you're correct. I was inaccurate with my claim. The antipathy towards the US is much stronger in Central America and the Andean regions (Bolivia, Peru, Ecuador, etc) As for being childish, the US has done a whole lot to earn that enmity. I'd recommend reading Open veins of Latin America, by Eduardo Galeano. It's a difficult read, due in no small part to the author's support of the Cuban Revolution and Castro's government. It helps, however, to recognize that the book was written in 1971, long before it became apparent that the Cuban experiment with Communism had some serious humanitarian costs, despite its successes. At the time, Cuba was the only real counterpoint to American economic imperialism in Latin America, so it's easy to see why he would offer such strong support for that regime. Despite that, the book is meticulously researched and cited, and many of the events it details are frankly despicable. It's also by no means an attack on the US, as it covers 500 years of history since the Spanish invasion of the continent. It really is a good read.
    - masklinn 16y ago
      > As for being childish, the US has done a whole lot to earn that enmity. That's quite an understatement.
      - rbanffy 16y ago
        Some people have done a lot, sometimes with government support, but those are a tiny minority when compared to the people they represented. You shouldn't judge a people by the actions of their leaders.
        alex_c 16y ago
        > You shouldn't judge a people by the actions of their leaders. That becomes a difficult argument beyond a certain point. Especially if the leaders are (in theory, at least) representing the people.
        rbanffy 16y ago
        The point is that "in theory" a democracy represents the ideals of all its people. Usually, a democracy represents a fraction of the will of a people. Plus, the fraction that agrees with everything the leader does is even smaller.
        potatolicious 16y ago
        The problem that line of argument runs into is that the American people has also failed to hold its democratically elected government responsible for the shadier things its done (I'll stop just short of calling them atrocities, though some of it crosses that line). Hell, the sorry state that much of Latin America is in right now is largely directly attributable to the direct intervention of the USA (see redthrowaway's post re: coups and installation of brutal military dictatorships friendly to US interests). These crimes have essentially gone unpunished, or hell, unanswered entirely back at home. When the government purports to represent the people, the people rightly bear responsibility for its actions. While it is unrealistic to expect said government to do no wrong and always abide by the democratic principles on which it is founded, at the very least its abuses, once known, need to be reigned in by the very people who put them in charge. This is largely not happening.
  - zephyrfalcon 16y ago
    The number of times the US have tried to meddle in these countries' business may have something to do with it: http://www.zompist.com/latam.html http://www.zompist.com/latam.html
  - fabiandesimone 16y ago
    >I understand most of the northern Latin America may harbor strong negative feelings towards the US That is what Chavez wants you to think. I agree there is some part of the population in Venezuela that does not like the US but I think is mainly because they are being told not to like them. I believe that most of Venezuelans have always looked up to the US and are pro-yankee. Given the choice (specially Chavez supporters) will prefer the american way of life or the american dream over this new Socialism of the 21st century.
    - redthrowaway 16y ago
      Sorry, what? Was this intended to be satire? The US has done a great many things to make itself very hated in Latin America, and that is far from limited to, or even primarily in, Venezuela.
      - compay 16y ago
        Just curious, what's your experience living or traveling in Latin America? Have you seen or experienced this widespread hatred first hand? I obviously don't deny that the USA committed terrible abuses in Latin America, but I have yet to see the widespread resentment you speak of; not everybody walks around with a copy of The Open Veins in their pocket down here. Latin Americans can be as ignorant or apathetic of history as anybody in the USA. I am not a Chavez supporter, but the claim that he or many Venezuelans "hate the USA" lacks nuance to say the least. If that were the case, Johann Santana would be reviled as a traitor for playing baseball in the USA, rather then being received by Chavez as a hero.
        redthrowaway 16y ago
        I wouldn't call it widespread hatred. I certainly didn't see any evidence of hatred towards individual Americans. It's more a widespread opinion that the United States is at best questionably moral. There are certainly many who think it is evil, and if you ask the average person on the street they'd probably have mostly negative feelings towards the US. I haven't been to the Middle East, but I imagine the sentiment to be very similar. People have an odd way of resenting you when you back brutal dictators that kill thousands of civilians.
  - cabalamat 16y ago
    > Besides that, it's really childish to hate a country. Perhaps, but it's rather mature to hate a country's government, particularly when that government is busily taking away people's freedoms, e.g. with the ACTA treaty.
    - cabalamat 16y ago
      > it's rather mature to hate a country's government On reflection, I think this is too strongly worded. Hating a government can be counterproductive because the emotion can get in the way of devising an optimium strategy to counter what one doesn't like. "Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgment." -- Michael Corleone, Godfather III
SwaroopH 16y ago
Yes but he'll need a heck lot of protection.
CoachRufus87 16y ago
...thus making the job of finding Assange easier for the hired assassins
- chadp 16y ago
  Sarah Palin said today that he should be hunted down like Osama bin laden.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - igravious 16y ago
    Really? You mean with a complete and utter lack of success? Zing! edit: you know, when someone who is cited as a possible presidential candidate reflexively reaches for an extra-judicial solution to resolve the releasing of state information by a foreign whistleblower then ... what? i don't know, but it's very telling. the road back towards the rule of law is going to be long and difficult one.
    - davidcuddeback 16y ago
      Last night, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said in a press meeting that Wikileaks should be labeled a terrorist organization. I find it frightening that the government has reached a point that they will label anyone they don't like as a terrorist so that they can bypass the legal system. I didn't realize that exposing information could be an act of terror, but Clinton would like to have you believe so. Edit: I did a quick Google search to find a news piece about this. The first one I found was this: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/gop-rep-wikileaks-deemed-foreign-terrorist-organization/ http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/gop-rep-wikileaks-deemed-... That article tells us who lobbied Clinton to label Wikileaks as terrorists, but it also references the Pentagon Papers case, which I cited from in a comment in another discussion about Wikileaks (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1948911 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1948911).
      - 16y ago
bradleyland 16y ago
What happens when he releases information that is sensitive to Ecuador's interests?
- kno 16y ago
  Ecuador is not known for its law abiding practices, it will not be smart for Mr Asange to live there. It will be easy to the government of Ecuador or anyone with some power to get him in shit trouble down there.
  - Leptosiphon 16y ago
    Ecuador is not known for its law abiding practices I don't think that's a very accurate characterization. While Ecuador does currently have a volatile government, the country is democratic, with relatively fair elections and reasonably comprehensive civil rights. It's not the US, or even Costa Rica, but Ecuador is also not some corrupt banana republic.
- moo 16y ago
  That just sounds snarky, knee jerk to put down Ecuador without any context. A coup attempt was made against Ecuadorian President Correa, a coup attempt was made against Venazuelan President Chavez, destabilizing efforts are done against Bolivian President Morales, Haitian President Aristide was kidnapped out of Haiti in 2004, Honduran President Zelaya was ousted in a coup in 2009. The article points out Ecuador's motives are exposing the cables related to Latin America, not some claim to freedom of information. For Assange to go to Ecuador and start criticizing the government of Ecuador would just be politically rudderless and stupid.
  - bradleyland 16y ago
    Sorry, I don't mean it as a slight toward Ecuador. My point is that it's easy to espouse objectivity when it's someone else's dirty laundry being aired. I question whether any nations' leadership (not just Ecuador) would remain friendly to Assange if it were their own diplomats' private communications being exposed.
jscore 16y ago
Hah, I doubt he'll go, I think he'd rather stay in Switzerland or some other 1st world country, than going to Ecuador where he's at mercy of US' interests.
- ceejayoz 16y ago
  Most developed nations have extradition treaties with the US - and Assange has a good chance of independently pissing them off in the future if he leaks info on them. Wikileaks has already leaked private bank memos, which the Swiss in particular don't take kindly to. Ecuador is no fan of the US, and it tends not to be a very interesting nation from a leaking perspective. It'd be a better choice than most developed nations.
  - jscore 16y ago
    If push comes to shove, they'll just use him as a bargaining chip for something they want.
dchs 16y ago
It's a trap!
hugh3 16y ago
Yeah, right. Mr Assange is currently having the time of his life, travelling around the world, pretending to be on the run from authorities which don't seem to have much interest in actually pursuing him, talking to the media a lot and having possibly-consensual sex with hot Swedish chicks. You think he wants to go hang out in Quito for the rest of his life?
- hugh3 16y ago
  Wow, I sure got downmodded for that. A lot of Quitoans in the audience? I'm sorry, I'm sure your city is a very nice place.
huherto 16y ago
I doubt Assange would really consider it. In my opinion Ecuador is just trying to appear brave against the U.S. without really doing anything. That pays a lot in the internal politics in Latin America.
- proles 16y ago
  considering that the current president at one time shut down tv stations and radio stations serving the opposition, this is one of those offers you just pass on. http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,CPJ,,ECU,,48a57540c,0.html http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,CPJ,,ECU,,48a57540c,0...
wyck 16y ago
Probably not the best idea. Related video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuWpgRQuXU4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuWpgRQuXU4 More info http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=21310 http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=21...
egor83 16y ago
On a related note, a big online library of Russian books is managed from Ecuador (used to be hosted there as well). They used to openly call themselves pirates, but Russian publishers couldn't do much to the site legally due to Ecuador copyright laws. Publishers then tried to bring the site down by DOS attacks, but didn't quite succeed.
tybris 16y ago
Joke all you want, it appears the tables of what constitutes a free country have turned dramatically.
- jerf 16y ago
  Uh, a country does not become "free" by symbolically offering one person the privilege of freely attacking an entity it is at best ambivalent about. That's just falling for the propaganda move hook line and sinker.
- InclinedPlane 16y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot
27182818284 16y ago
I don't think Ecuador has the infrastructure to support WikiLeaks. Hosting on a different continent seems scary in this situation where you're pissing off governments.
- jacquesm 16y ago
  The offer is to Assange, not to wikileaks, so no infrastructure required. All it takes to manage wikileaks is ssh access to a bunch of servers hosted all over the place.
  - 27182818284 16y ago
    Exactly, that was the second half of my post. It doesn't seem like a normal SSH situation when angering governments.

95 points by zalew 16y ago

Interesting. Ecuador's current government is quite leftist, and very friendly with Chavez, despite close ties to the US. There used to be a huge US naval base in Manta, although it was closed when I was there this summer. While Internet coverage is spotty enough to disuade permanent residence for someone like Assange, I could see him trying to get some support in South American countries. He's helped by two things: The Internet culture there is still very Wild West, 1998-style, and they absolutely despise the US (with good reason). In fact, the one constant in South America is how much they hate the US, although attitudes toward individual Americans varied.

rbanffy 16y ago
> In fact, the one constant in South America is how much they hate the US I am not sure where you have been or what you have experienced, but I wouldn't call it a constant. I never noticed this widespread hatred towards the US you mention in Brazil, Argentina or Chile. I understand most of the northern Latin America may harbor strong negative feelings towards the US, but I can tell you Brazilians really don't care that much. Besides that, it's really childish to hate a country.
- Gupie 16y ago
  Distance makes the heart grow fonder
- redthrowaway 16y ago
  Sorry, you're correct. I was inaccurate with my claim. The antipathy towards the US is much stronger in Central America and the Andean regions (Bolivia, Peru, Ecuador, etc) As for being childish, the US has done a whole lot to earn that enmity. I'd recommend reading Open veins of Latin America, by Eduardo Galeano. It's a difficult read, due in no small part to the author's support of the Cuban Revolution and Castro's government. It helps, however, to recognize that the book was written in 1971, long before it became apparent that the Cuban experiment with Communism had some serious humanitarian costs, despite its successes. At the time, Cuba was the only real counterpoint to American economic imperialism in Latin America, so it's easy to see why he would offer such strong support for that regime. Despite that, the book is meticulously researched and cited, and many of the events it details are frankly despicable. It's also by no means an attack on the US, as it covers 500 years of history since the Spanish invasion of the continent. It really is a good read.
  - masklinn 16y ago
    > As for being childish, the US has done a whole lot to earn that enmity. That's quite an understatement.
    - rbanffy 16y ago
      Some people have done a lot, sometimes with government support, but those are a tiny minority when compared to the people they represented. You shouldn't judge a people by the actions of their leaders.
      - alex_c 16y ago
        > You shouldn't judge a people by the actions of their leaders. That becomes a difficult argument beyond a certain point. Especially if the leaders are (in theory, at least) representing the people.
        rbanffy 16y ago
        The point is that "in theory" a democracy represents the ideals of all its people. Usually, a democracy represents a fraction of the will of a people. Plus, the fraction that agrees with everything the leader does is even smaller.
        potatolicious 16y ago
        The problem that line of argument runs into is that the American people has also failed to hold its democratically elected government responsible for the shadier things its done (I'll stop just short of calling them atrocities, though some of it crosses that line). Hell, the sorry state that much of Latin America is in right now is largely directly attributable to the direct intervention of the USA (see redthrowaway's post re: coups and installation of brutal military dictatorships friendly to US interests). These crimes have essentially gone unpunished, or hell, unanswered entirely back at home. When the government purports to represent the people, the people rightly bear responsibility for its actions. While it is unrealistic to expect said government to do no wrong and always abide by the democratic principles on which it is founded, at the very least its abuses, once known, need to be reigned in by the very people who put them in charge. This is largely not happening.
- zephyrfalcon 16y ago
  The number of times the US have tried to meddle in these countries' business may have something to do with it: http://www.zompist.com/latam.html http://www.zompist.com/latam.html
- fabiandesimone 16y ago
  >I understand most of the northern Latin America may harbor strong negative feelings towards the US That is what Chavez wants you to think. I agree there is some part of the population in Venezuela that does not like the US but I think is mainly because they are being told not to like them. I believe that most of Venezuelans have always looked up to the US and are pro-yankee. Given the choice (specially Chavez supporters) will prefer the american way of life or the american dream over this new Socialism of the 21st century.
  - redthrowaway 16y ago
    Sorry, what? Was this intended to be satire? The US has done a great many things to make itself very hated in Latin America, and that is far from limited to, or even primarily in, Venezuela.
    - compay 16y ago
      Just curious, what's your experience living or traveling in Latin America? Have you seen or experienced this widespread hatred first hand? I obviously don't deny that the USA committed terrible abuses in Latin America, but I have yet to see the widespread resentment you speak of; not everybody walks around with a copy of The Open Veins in their pocket down here. Latin Americans can be as ignorant or apathetic of history as anybody in the USA. I am not a Chavez supporter, but the claim that he or many Venezuelans "hate the USA" lacks nuance to say the least. If that were the case, Johann Santana would be reviled as a traitor for playing baseball in the USA, rather then being received by Chavez as a hero.
      - redthrowaway 16y ago
        I wouldn't call it widespread hatred. I certainly didn't see any evidence of hatred towards individual Americans. It's more a widespread opinion that the United States is at best questionably moral. There are certainly many who think it is evil, and if you ask the average person on the street they'd probably have mostly negative feelings towards the US. I haven't been to the Middle East, but I imagine the sentiment to be very similar. People have an odd way of resenting you when you back brutal dictators that kill thousands of civilians.
- cabalamat 16y ago
  > Besides that, it's really childish to hate a country. Perhaps, but it's rather mature to hate a country's government, particularly when that government is busily taking away people's freedoms, e.g. with the ACTA treaty.
  - cabalamat 16y ago
    > it's rather mature to hate a country's government On reflection, I think this is too strongly worded. Hating a government can be counterproductive because the emotion can get in the way of devising an optimium strategy to counter what one doesn't like. "Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgment." -- Michael Corleone, Godfather III

SwaroopH 16y ago

Yes but he'll need a heck lot of protection.

CoachRufus87 16y ago

...thus making the job of finding Assange easier for the hired assassins

chadp 16y ago
Sarah Palin said today that he should be hunted down like Osama bin laden.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- igravious 16y ago
  Really? You mean with a complete and utter lack of success? Zing! edit: you know, when someone who is cited as a possible presidential candidate reflexively reaches for an extra-judicial solution to resolve the releasing of state information by a foreign whistleblower then ... what? i don't know, but it's very telling. the road back towards the rule of law is going to be long and difficult one.
  - davidcuddeback 16y ago
    Last night, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said in a press meeting that Wikileaks should be labeled a terrorist organization. I find it frightening that the government has reached a point that they will label anyone they don't like as a terrorist so that they can bypass the legal system. I didn't realize that exposing information could be an act of terror, but Clinton would like to have you believe so. Edit: I did a quick Google search to find a news piece about this. The first one I found was this: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/gop-rep-wikileaks-deemed-foreign-terrorist-organization/ http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/gop-rep-wikileaks-deemed-... That article tells us who lobbied Clinton to label Wikileaks as terrorists, but it also references the Pentagon Papers case, which I cited from in a comment in another discussion about Wikileaks (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1948911 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1948911).
    - 16y ago

bradleyland 16y ago

What happens when he releases information that is sensitive to Ecuador's interests?

kno 16y ago
Ecuador is not known for its law abiding practices, it will not be smart for Mr Asange to live there. It will be easy to the government of Ecuador or anyone with some power to get him in shit trouble down there.
- Leptosiphon 16y ago
  Ecuador is not known for its law abiding practices I don't think that's a very accurate characterization. While Ecuador does currently have a volatile government, the country is democratic, with relatively fair elections and reasonably comprehensive civil rights. It's not the US, or even Costa Rica, but Ecuador is also not some corrupt banana republic.
moo 16y ago
That just sounds snarky, knee jerk to put down Ecuador without any context. A coup attempt was made against Ecuadorian President Correa, a coup attempt was made against Venazuelan President Chavez, destabilizing efforts are done against Bolivian President Morales, Haitian President Aristide was kidnapped out of Haiti in 2004, Honduran President Zelaya was ousted in a coup in 2009. The article points out Ecuador's motives are exposing the cables related to Latin America, not some claim to freedom of information. For Assange to go to Ecuador and start criticizing the government of Ecuador would just be politically rudderless and stupid.
- bradleyland 16y ago
  Sorry, I don't mean it as a slight toward Ecuador. My point is that it's easy to espouse objectivity when it's someone else's dirty laundry being aired. I question whether any nations' leadership (not just Ecuador) would remain friendly to Assange if it were their own diplomats' private communications being exposed.

jscore 16y ago

Hah, I doubt he'll go, I think he'd rather stay in Switzerland or some other 1st world country, than going to Ecuador where he's at mercy of US' interests.

ceejayoz 16y ago
Most developed nations have extradition treaties with the US - and Assange has a good chance of independently pissing them off in the future if he leaks info on them. Wikileaks has already leaked private bank memos, which the Swiss in particular don't take kindly to. Ecuador is no fan of the US, and it tends not to be a very interesting nation from a leaking perspective. It'd be a better choice than most developed nations.
- jscore 16y ago
  If push comes to shove, they'll just use him as a bargaining chip for something they want.

dchs 16y ago

It's a trap!

hugh3 16y ago

Yeah, right. Mr Assange is currently having the time of his life, travelling around the world, pretending to be on the run from authorities which don't seem to have much interest in actually pursuing him, talking to the media a lot and having possibly-consensual sex with hot Swedish chicks. You think he wants to go hang out in Quito for the rest of his life?

hugh3 16y ago
Wow, I sure got downmodded for that. A lot of Quitoans in the audience? I'm sorry, I'm sure your city is a very nice place.

huherto 16y ago

I doubt Assange would really consider it. In my opinion Ecuador is just trying to appear brave against the U.S. without really doing anything. That pays a lot in the internal politics in Latin America.

proles 16y ago
considering that the current president at one time shut down tv stations and radio stations serving the opposition, this is one of those offers you just pass on. http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,CPJ,,ECU,,48a57540c,0.html http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,CPJ,,ECU,,48a57540c,0...

wyck 16y ago

Probably not the best idea. Related video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuWpgRQuXU4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuWpgRQuXU4 More info http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=21310 http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=21...

egor83 16y ago

On a related note, a big online library of Russian books is managed from Ecuador (used to be hosted there as well). They used to openly call themselves pirates, but Russian publishers couldn't do much to the site legally due to Ecuador copyright laws. Publishers then tried to bring the site down by DOS attacks, but didn't quite succeed.

tybris 16y ago

Joke all you want, it appears the tables of what constitutes a free country have turned dramatically.

jerf 16y ago
Uh, a country does not become "free" by symbolically offering one person the privilege of freely attacking an entity it is at best ambivalent about. That's just falling for the propaganda move hook line and sinker.
InclinedPlane 16y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

27182818284 16y ago

I don't think Ecuador has the infrastructure to support WikiLeaks. Hosting on a different continent seems scary in this situation where you're pissing off governments.

jacquesm 16y ago
The offer is to Assange, not to wikileaks, so no infrastructure required. All it takes to manage wikileaks is ssh access to a bunch of servers hosted all over the place.
- 27182818284 16y ago
  Exactly, that was the second half of my post. It doesn't seem like a normal SSH situation when angering governments.