4 ms·

What’s wrong with paper bags for your use case?

by mattnewton 8y ago

Wowfunhappy 8y ago
I can't use them as garbage bags because they can't hold anything even slightly wet, like food scraps.
- seltzered_ 8y ago
  For food scraps, get a bag-free composting bin. I use one that uses one big silicone reversible thing that inverts to push food out and can be thrown in the dishwasher: https://www.amazon.com/Polder-Composter-Flexible-silicone-emptying-cleaning/dp/B0775MPRML/ https://www.amazon.com/Polder-Composter-Flexible-silicone-em... For other things (kids/pets/etc.), purchase biodegradeable bags. There was a recent article on this subject: https://theconversation.com/plastic-bag-bans-can-backfire-if-consumers-just-use-other-plastics-instead-110571?mc_cid=3e3bfe8208&mc_eid=07419f81f0 https://theconversation.com/plastic-bag-bans-can-backfire-if... "Who were the people who reused plastic carryout bags pre-ban, and presumably bore the burden of buying trash bags post-ban? I found that bag reuse was higher for people who purchased pet items and baby items – in other words, who needed to collect and dispose of excrement. In 2017, nearly 6 percent of U.S. households had a child under 5 years old, 44 percent owned a dog, and 35 percent owned a cat." My take on this is that if you express the interest in having a child or a pet, you can afford the burden of buying biodegradable bags to handle waste. Perhaps there could be some assistance program for some low-income affected segment (i.e. adding biodegradable bags to a WIC-friendly item list).
  - Wowfunhappy 8y ago
    Sigh, I know I should be composting, but it's difficult. It's not offered in my area, and I don't want the smell in my tiny apartment. > My take on this is that if you express the interest in having a child or a pet, you can afford the burden of buying biodegradable bags to handle waste. If the law said that stores were allowed to give out biodegradable plastic bags (maybe at some small surcharge?) I'd be fine with that. Doubly so if the law actually suggested or incentivized switching to these types of bags. As far as I'm aware this isn't what's happening. The numbers in that article were pretty striking to me, btw: > A shopper would need to reuse a cotton carryout bag 131 times to reduce its global warming potential [...] below that of plastic carryout bags. > To have less impact on the climate than plastic carryout bags also reused as trash bags, consumers would need to use the cotton bag 327 times.
    - seltzered_ 8y ago
      >Sigh, I know I should be composting, but it's difficult. It's not oferred in my area, and I don't want the smell in my tiny apartment. Even if composting isn't offered, you could still 'fake' compost (i.e. use a composting bin anyway to reduce the need for plastig bags, but toss the food scraps in the main trash bin outside) I live in a small apartment and cook most my meals and haven't noticed much smell. You may need to double check your local rules, but last I checked mine there was no requirement by the waste-handling authority for apartment tenants to put their waste into separate bags. >The numbers in that article were pretty striking to me, btw Yes, wish the article did a better job of measuring it in years or months though it gets very subjective. Assuming you grab groceries weekly, the par is reached within a bit over two years. That doesn't seem too bad. The comparison of trash bags to reuising a cotton bag 327 times doesn't make sense as that's not generally something one would do. I interpret that as saying that you can retire a cotton shopping bag, assuming shopping weekly with it, after a bit over ~6 years.
      - Wowfunhappy 8y ago
        > The comparison of trash bags to reuising a cotton bag 327 times doesn't make sense as that's not generally something one would do. They're saying: "Compared to plastic shopping bags which are also reused as trash bags, you'd have to reuse a shopping bag (just for shopping) 327 times before there's any carbon reduction."
- mattnewton 8y ago
  I mean, I use paper bags for recycling and doubled up for compost. And then I buy garbage bags for extremely cheap of amazon or the corner store.
scarcely 8y ago
Use case? :O
caymanjim 8y ago
Have you ever tried to carry a paper shopping bag farther than your driveway to your kitchen? They tear at the slightest movement, the handles fall off, even condensation from a cold beverage bottle is enough to cause them to disintegrate. I'm all for getting rid of plastic bags, but paper bags are not at all viable for grocery shopping on foot. You can't walk three city blocks with arms full of paper bags. Your groceries will explode all over the street. None of this is a problem if you plan your shopping and keep a stock of reusable bags, but the original complaint about spontaneous shopping is a valid concern. I end up buying new reusable bags very often, and while that may feel like it's beneficial to the environment, it's not as good as it seems. Each reusable bag has as much plastic as dozens of single-use ones, and eventually they end up getting thrown out too. People don't reuse them as often as they should. I think it's better, since they end up in landfills instead of blowing around the environment and landing in water, and overall it's helping change attitudes.
- projektir 8y ago
  > Have you ever tried to carry a paper shopping bag farther than your driveway to your kitchen? They tear at the slightest movement, the handles fall off, even condensation from a cold beverage bottle is enough to cause them to disintegrate. Yes, and you're exaggerating. You need to considerably overload a paper bag to cause it to tear, and even when I load up a bag with beer and milk cartons and everything I haven't had this happen. Maybe your supermarket doesn't know how to make a good paper bag?
  - buhkjladsfhu 8y ago
    All of us don't live in sunny California. What happens when it's raining?
    - mhink 8y ago
      I live in Seattle, and paper bags hold up remarkably well, even in the rainy weather- and in my experience, they’ve been more sturdy and hold more than than plastic bags, especially when doubled up. We also use them for our recycling- in my opinion they’re much better than plastic bags in because they stand up on their own.

What’s wrong with paper bags for your use case?

Wowfunhappy 8y ago

I can't use them as garbage bags because they can't hold anything even slightly wet, like food scraps.

seltzered_ 8y ago
For food scraps, get a bag-free composting bin. I use one that uses one big silicone reversible thing that inverts to push food out and can be thrown in the dishwasher: https://www.amazon.com/Polder-Composter-Flexible-silicone-emptying-cleaning/dp/B0775MPRML/ https://www.amazon.com/Polder-Composter-Flexible-silicone-em... For other things (kids/pets/etc.), purchase biodegradeable bags. There was a recent article on this subject: https://theconversation.com/plastic-bag-bans-can-backfire-if-consumers-just-use-other-plastics-instead-110571?mc_cid=3e3bfe8208&mc_eid=07419f81f0 https://theconversation.com/plastic-bag-bans-can-backfire-if... "Who were the people who reused plastic carryout bags pre-ban, and presumably bore the burden of buying trash bags post-ban? I found that bag reuse was higher for people who purchased pet items and baby items – in other words, who needed to collect and dispose of excrement. In 2017, nearly 6 percent of U.S. households had a child under 5 years old, 44 percent owned a dog, and 35 percent owned a cat." My take on this is that if you express the interest in having a child or a pet, you can afford the burden of buying biodegradable bags to handle waste. Perhaps there could be some assistance program for some low-income affected segment (i.e. adding biodegradable bags to a WIC-friendly item list).
- Wowfunhappy 8y ago
  Sigh, I know I should be composting, but it's difficult. It's not offered in my area, and I don't want the smell in my tiny apartment. > My take on this is that if you express the interest in having a child or a pet, you can afford the burden of buying biodegradable bags to handle waste. If the law said that stores were allowed to give out biodegradable plastic bags (maybe at some small surcharge?) I'd be fine with that. Doubly so if the law actually suggested or incentivized switching to these types of bags. As far as I'm aware this isn't what's happening. The numbers in that article were pretty striking to me, btw: > A shopper would need to reuse a cotton carryout bag 131 times to reduce its global warming potential [...] below that of plastic carryout bags. > To have less impact on the climate than plastic carryout bags also reused as trash bags, consumers would need to use the cotton bag 327 times.
  - seltzered_ 8y ago
    >Sigh, I know I should be composting, but it's difficult. It's not oferred in my area, and I don't want the smell in my tiny apartment. Even if composting isn't offered, you could still 'fake' compost (i.e. use a composting bin anyway to reduce the need for plastig bags, but toss the food scraps in the main trash bin outside) I live in a small apartment and cook most my meals and haven't noticed much smell. You may need to double check your local rules, but last I checked mine there was no requirement by the waste-handling authority for apartment tenants to put their waste into separate bags. >The numbers in that article were pretty striking to me, btw Yes, wish the article did a better job of measuring it in years or months though it gets very subjective. Assuming you grab groceries weekly, the par is reached within a bit over two years. That doesn't seem too bad. The comparison of trash bags to reuising a cotton bag 327 times doesn't make sense as that's not generally something one would do. I interpret that as saying that you can retire a cotton shopping bag, assuming shopping weekly with it, after a bit over ~6 years.
    - Wowfunhappy 8y ago
      > The comparison of trash bags to reuising a cotton bag 327 times doesn't make sense as that's not generally something one would do. They're saying: "Compared to plastic shopping bags which are also reused as trash bags, you'd have to reuse a shopping bag (just for shopping) 327 times before there's any carbon reduction."
mattnewton 8y ago
I mean, I use paper bags for recycling and doubled up for compost. And then I buy garbage bags for extremely cheap of amazon or the corner store.

scarcely 8y ago

Use case? :O

caymanjim 8y ago

Have you ever tried to carry a paper shopping bag farther than your driveway to your kitchen? They tear at the slightest movement, the handles fall off, even condensation from a cold beverage bottle is enough to cause them to disintegrate. I'm all for getting rid of plastic bags, but paper bags are not at all viable for grocery shopping on foot. You can't walk three city blocks with arms full of paper bags. Your groceries will explode all over the street. None of this is a problem if you plan your shopping and keep a stock of reusable bags, but the original complaint about spontaneous shopping is a valid concern. I end up buying new reusable bags very often, and while that may feel like it's beneficial to the environment, it's not as good as it seems. Each reusable bag has as much plastic as dozens of single-use ones, and eventually they end up getting thrown out too. People don't reuse them as often as they should. I think it's better, since they end up in landfills instead of blowing around the environment and landing in water, and overall it's helping change attitudes.

projektir 8y ago
> Have you ever tried to carry a paper shopping bag farther than your driveway to your kitchen? They tear at the slightest movement, the handles fall off, even condensation from a cold beverage bottle is enough to cause them to disintegrate. Yes, and you're exaggerating. You need to considerably overload a paper bag to cause it to tear, and even when I load up a bag with beer and milk cartons and everything I haven't had this happen. Maybe your supermarket doesn't know how to make a good paper bag?
- buhkjladsfhu 8y ago
  All of us don't live in sunny California. What happens when it's raining?
  - mhink 8y ago
    I live in Seattle, and paper bags hold up remarkably well, even in the rainy weather- and in my experience, they’ve been more sturdy and hold more than than plastic bags, especially when doubled up. We also use them for our recycling- in my opinion they’re much better than plastic bags in because they stand up on their own.