5 ms·

People rich enough to put their kids in private school are a tiny minority. It doesn't matter what they think. This is a working class movement for working clas

by door5 8y ago

People rich enough to put their kids in private school are a tiny minority. It doesn't matter what they think. This is a working class movement for working class people.

manfredo 8y ago
No, they aren't. The average private school tuition is about $10k a year [1]. Ones affiliated with religious institutions like Catholic schools often offer subsidized tuition for lower income people. It's within reach for a sizable portion of the middle class. In many states, private school tuition is tax deductible. Granted, cheaper private schools are more common in the less affluent areas (namely, the South) where it's essentially taken for granted that the moderately well off and above send their kids to private schools. If you're from a wealthy coastal city with public schools good enough that the wealthy are comfortable sending their kids there, then it's understandable why some may associate private schools as being more exclusive to the upper class. 1. https://www.privateschoolreview.com/tuition-stats/private-school-cost-by-state https://www.privateschoolreview.com/tuition-stats/private-sc...
- sundaeofshock 8y ago
  Median household income in the US is $65k. $10k/year/ child is not affordable for most households. You also mention religious schools. Why should a person have to indoctrinated in a religion to receive a good education?
  - manfredo 8y ago
    > Median household income in the US is $65k. $10k/year/ child is not affordable for most households. Er, no? Assuming it's tax deductible most families can probably make some lifestyle changes to free up $10k. Sure it might inhibit other goals, like building up saving or consumer spending. But it's a sacrifice that many people can make if they have a strong incentive to do so (like if the local public school is crap). And this is ignoring any sort of subsidy or assistance. > You also mention religious schools. Why should a person have to indoctrinated in a religion to receive a good education? I mentioned them in context cheaper private school education. Not to mention, the fact that you immediately leapt from "religious school" to "indoctrination" indicates that you seem to be approaching this with your conclusions decided a priori and are looking to justify them rather than participate in good faith.
    - sundaeofshock 8y ago
      > lifestyle changes to free up $10k. Seriously? Do you have a family? Raising kids is really expensive, even without sending them off to public school. After rent, food, clothing, medical care, and transportation, there is not much left. As for your comments about religious school, I am basing my comments on real the real world experience of having gone to a religious school for 7-years. All of these schools require some type of education about the school’s founding religion. At a minimum, we are talking about a regular class. Many schools require their students to adhere to the standards of the religion during the course of the school day. Please explain to me how this is not indoctrination?
      - manfredo 8y ago
        If an extra $10k out of an overall family income of $65k is impossible then I'd say that this family isn't managing money well. Were they not putting anything into savings before? Did they have no savings? Again, it'd be a significant sacrifice to afford private school - I've said so since the beginning - but it is possible for a lot more than just "a tiny minority" (your original words). > All of these schools require some type of education about the school’s founding religion. At a minimum, we are talking about a regular class. Many schools require their students to adhere to the standards of the religion during the course of the school day. And from this, you jump to "indoctrination". I and other family members have been to religious schools as well. One of my sister's closest friends was Jewish, and went to Catholic without any type of issue. And both my sister and I are about as atheistic as you can get. If merely teaching a class about the founding religion counts as indoctrination then this is a very, very permissive definition of indoctrination you're using.
        door5 8y ago
        Advocacy of a specific religion should not be part of a citizen's formal education. Private religious schools receive public funding and public accreditation, and they should not, nor should any other private school, for that matter.
        8y ago
pnw_hazor 8y ago
About 22-23% of school age children in Seattle, WA go to private schools.
- door5 8y ago
  Are you validating my point? Less than 1/4th of all children in one of the wealthiest metropolitan areas in the country.
  - manfredo 8y ago
    10% of students nation-wide attend private K-12 schools [1]. This is not "a tiny minority". https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=55 https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=55
    - door5 8y ago
      This is pedantic. 10% is proportionally a very small number. I'm far more invested in the interests and priorities of 90% of people than of 10% of people.
      - pnw_hazor 8y ago
        In Seattle about half of school age white kids go to private schools. Half of the largest demographic. Also, I don't believe that you are more invested in the 90% over the 10% unless the 10% is a group you disfavor -- such as parents who refuse to condemn their children to bad public schools if they can help it.
        door5 8y ago
        I condemn the rich who want to isolate their kids instead of working on a public school system accessible to all, yes. It's oddly transparent to limit your stats to white people.

by door5 8y ago

People rich enough to put their kids in private school are a tiny minority. It doesn't matter what they think. This is a working class movement for working class people.

manfredo 8y ago

No, they aren't. The average private school tuition is about $10k a year [1]. Ones affiliated with religious institutions like Catholic schools often offer subsidized tuition for lower income people. It's within reach for a sizable portion of the middle class. In many states, private school tuition is tax deductible. Granted, cheaper private schools are more common in the less affluent areas (namely, the South) where it's essentially taken for granted that the moderately well off and above send their kids to private schools. If you're from a wealthy coastal city with public schools good enough that the wealthy are comfortable sending their kids there, then it's understandable why some may associate private schools as being more exclusive to the upper class. 1. https://www.privateschoolreview.com/tuition-stats/private-school-cost-by-state https://www.privateschoolreview.com/tuition-stats/private-sc...

sundaeofshock 8y ago
Median household income in the US is $65k. $10k/year/ child is not affordable for most households. You also mention religious schools. Why should a person have to indoctrinated in a religion to receive a good education?
- manfredo 8y ago
  > Median household income in the US is $65k. $10k/year/ child is not affordable for most households. Er, no? Assuming it's tax deductible most families can probably make some lifestyle changes to free up $10k. Sure it might inhibit other goals, like building up saving or consumer spending. But it's a sacrifice that many people can make if they have a strong incentive to do so (like if the local public school is crap). And this is ignoring any sort of subsidy or assistance. > You also mention religious schools. Why should a person have to indoctrinated in a religion to receive a good education? I mentioned them in context cheaper private school education. Not to mention, the fact that you immediately leapt from "religious school" to "indoctrination" indicates that you seem to be approaching this with your conclusions decided a priori and are looking to justify them rather than participate in good faith.
  - sundaeofshock 8y ago
    > lifestyle changes to free up $10k. Seriously? Do you have a family? Raising kids is really expensive, even without sending them off to public school. After rent, food, clothing, medical care, and transportation, there is not much left. As for your comments about religious school, I am basing my comments on real the real world experience of having gone to a religious school for 7-years. All of these schools require some type of education about the school’s founding religion. At a minimum, we are talking about a regular class. Many schools require their students to adhere to the standards of the religion during the course of the school day. Please explain to me how this is not indoctrination?
    - manfredo 8y ago
      If an extra $10k out of an overall family income of $65k is impossible then I'd say that this family isn't managing money well. Were they not putting anything into savings before? Did they have no savings? Again, it'd be a significant sacrifice to afford private school - I've said so since the beginning - but it is possible for a lot more than just "a tiny minority" (your original words). > All of these schools require some type of education about the school’s founding religion. At a minimum, we are talking about a regular class. Many schools require their students to adhere to the standards of the religion during the course of the school day. And from this, you jump to "indoctrination". I and other family members have been to religious schools as well. One of my sister's closest friends was Jewish, and went to Catholic without any type of issue. And both my sister and I are about as atheistic as you can get. If merely teaching a class about the founding religion counts as indoctrination then this is a very, very permissive definition of indoctrination you're using.
      - door5 8y ago
        Advocacy of a specific religion should not be part of a citizen's formal education. Private religious schools receive public funding and public accreditation, and they should not, nor should any other private school, for that matter.
        8y ago

pnw_hazor 8y ago

About 22-23% of school age children in Seattle, WA go to private schools.

door5 8y ago
Are you validating my point? Less than 1/4th of all children in one of the wealthiest metropolitan areas in the country.
- manfredo 8y ago
  10% of students nation-wide attend private K-12 schools [1]. This is not "a tiny minority". https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=55 https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=55
  - door5 8y ago
    This is pedantic. 10% is proportionally a very small number. I'm far more invested in the interests and priorities of 90% of people than of 10% of people.
    - pnw_hazor 8y ago
      In Seattle about half of school age white kids go to private schools. Half of the largest demographic. Also, I don't believe that you are more invested in the 90% over the 10% unless the 10% is a group you disfavor -- such as parents who refuse to condemn their children to bad public schools if they can help it.
      - door5 8y ago
        I condemn the rich who want to isolate their kids instead of working on a public school system accessible to all, yes. It's oddly transparent to limit your stats to white people.