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I was driving towards an oncoming Tesla recently on a 2 lane country road and it lane changed neatly into my side and drove straight at me. Closing speed 160km/

I was driving towards an oncoming Tesla recently on a 2 lane country road and it lane changed neatly into my side and drove straight at me. Closing speed 160km/h or so. Fortunately it chose to do so with enough time for me to stop, and for the driver to re-take control and take my shoulder as a stopping place. If it had made the decision a few seconds later, it would have been a different story. I think old snow across the centre lane markings was the cause, but if you can't handle the edge cases, then perhaps you shouldn't release.

StreamBright 8y ago
Yep. The standard method of software development (release it early and fix it later) does not work for self driving cars and medical instruments.
- thekingofh 8y ago
  And airplanes apparently.
PunchTornado 8y ago
why are ppl blaming tesla? Isn't it in their manual to always keep hands on wheel?
- admax88q 8y ago
  Its much easier to get distracted or fall asleep when you're not engaged with driving the vehicle at all.
- rohit2412 8y ago
  And this is how the CEO advertises it https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-breaks-tesla-autopilot-rule-2018-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-breaks-tesla-autop...
- xienze 8y ago
  The real problem with any self-driving system is that a good one will breed complacency. After you spend enough time seeing how well it works in practice you’ll become more and more prone to do stuff like check your phone or watch a YouTube video. I mean the car can handle itself, right? You’ve gone thousands of miles watching this thing effortlessly drive itself, why not enjoy the promise of self-driving technology, which is to free you from the tedium of driving? It’s just human nature to do so,
- steelframe 8y ago
  I encourage you to read the book "Thinking, Fast and Slow." This book explains how System 1 is trained with deeply-ingrained biases through repeated feedback-based experiences. Tesla then says, "But make sure your System 2 is ready to take over in an instant!" This simply isn't how the human brain works.
- cromulent 8y ago
  "Your Tesla will match speed to traffic conditions, keep within a lane, automatically change lanes without requiring driver input". "The person in the drivers seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself". https://www.tesla.com/autopilot?redirect=no https://www.tesla.com/autopilot?redirect=no
  - sorokod 8y ago
    "The car is driving itself" - gone.
  - pps 8y ago
    Quote from this site: "Current Autopilot features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous."
    - cromulent 8y ago
      Sure, and it had supervision. But Tesla's software made the choice, and the supervisor overrode it, but only because he fortuitously had time to do so. If a passenger aircraft has an autopilot problem that causes a crash, do you blame the manufacturer or the pilots? The pilots are always supervising the plane, and it's not autonomous, right?
      - bencoder 8y ago
        Judging by a lot of the discourse immediately following the most recent 737max incident, people were definitely blaming the pilots. Thankfully that's cleared up a bit now.
        notahacker 8y ago
        I think that's a very relevant analogy. By the standards of the average driver, the 737 Max pilots were extraordinarily well trained and highly skilled, and they had a lot of time to correct the software error relative to most conceivable problems with a semi-autonomous vehicle. But regulators have still (reasonably) decided that their inability to cope with software quirks should be treated as a software problem and not a problem with the pilots' failure to rectify the erratic behaviour.
- dmitriid 8y ago
  That pine in the manual is an attempt to weasel out of situations like the one described. No one expects a person who’s not engaged in driving a car to keep the same level of alertness at all times as if they were driving a car.
- thebruce87m 8y ago
  A system that breeds complacency in a life/death activity is one that kills you.
  - erikpukinskis 8y ago
    Not if it also catches fatal mistakes that you would have missed. Then you have to subtract A from B to find out if it is "a system which kills you".
    - thomastjeffery 8y ago
      A system that is capable of saving your life at one point in time, and killing you in another is still "a system which kills you". The difference between outcomes is not a valid conclusion.
      - erikpukinskis 8y ago
        So a seat belt is a system that kills you? What would be an example of a system that doesn't kill you?
gwbas1c 8y ago
I call BS. My Tesla doesn't change lanes without driver confirmation. It requires ACTIVE confirmation from the driver, and is extremely conservative in crossing the line. I frequently take over when it doesn't change lanes fast enough. Most likely the driver was passing someone.
- pkulak 8y ago
  "changing lanes without driver confirmation" is just another way to say "ran off the road and crashed".
- jononor 8y ago
  The car may have though it was just following the current lane, like what the original article is about.
- dreamcompiler 8y ago
  Teslas don't change lanes without confirmation provided they know where the lane is. The problem is that it seems pretty easy to fool a Tesla into thinking the lane is somewhere it isn't.
- ClassyJacket 8y ago
  It doesn't change lanes when it knows it's changing lanes. If the Tesla thought it was staying in the correct lane, it wouldn't ask for the confirmation.
  - strainer 8y ago
    That is the situation for any driver. This discussion is under a nonsense test report and headline btw. The car was moving slowly, around what could easily be identified by gps and vision as some sort of test track or empty lot, with varied and inconsistent markings and no other traffic in sight.
    - pavel_lishin 8y ago
      > That is the situation for any driver. The software running on drivers has been under active development for much longer than Tesla. (I'd start bidding at billions of years, though I'm willing to get argued down to tens of thousands.)

StreamBright 8y ago

Yep. The standard method of software development (release it early and fix it later) does not work for self driving cars and medical instruments.

thekingofh 8y ago
And airplanes apparently.

PunchTornado 8y ago

why are ppl blaming tesla? Isn't it in their manual to always keep hands on wheel?

admax88q 8y ago
Its much easier to get distracted or fall asleep when you're not engaged with driving the vehicle at all.
rohit2412 8y ago
And this is how the CEO advertises it https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-breaks-tesla-autopilot-rule-2018-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-breaks-tesla-autop...
xienze 8y ago
The real problem with any self-driving system is that a good one will breed complacency. After you spend enough time seeing how well it works in practice you’ll become more and more prone to do stuff like check your phone or watch a YouTube video. I mean the car can handle itself, right? You’ve gone thousands of miles watching this thing effortlessly drive itself, why not enjoy the promise of self-driving technology, which is to free you from the tedium of driving? It’s just human nature to do so,
steelframe 8y ago
I encourage you to read the book "Thinking, Fast and Slow." This book explains how System 1 is trained with deeply-ingrained biases through repeated feedback-based experiences. Tesla then says, "But make sure your System 2 is ready to take over in an instant!" This simply isn't how the human brain works.
cromulent 8y ago
"Your Tesla will match speed to traffic conditions, keep within a lane, automatically change lanes without requiring driver input". "The person in the drivers seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself". https://www.tesla.com/autopilot?redirect=no https://www.tesla.com/autopilot?redirect=no
- sorokod 8y ago
  "The car is driving itself" - gone.
- pps 8y ago
  Quote from this site: "Current Autopilot features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous."
  - cromulent 8y ago
    Sure, and it had supervision. But Tesla's software made the choice, and the supervisor overrode it, but only because he fortuitously had time to do so. If a passenger aircraft has an autopilot problem that causes a crash, do you blame the manufacturer or the pilots? The pilots are always supervising the plane, and it's not autonomous, right?
    - bencoder 8y ago
      Judging by a lot of the discourse immediately following the most recent 737max incident, people were definitely blaming the pilots. Thankfully that's cleared up a bit now.
      - notahacker 8y ago
        I think that's a very relevant analogy. By the standards of the average driver, the 737 Max pilots were extraordinarily well trained and highly skilled, and they had a lot of time to correct the software error relative to most conceivable problems with a semi-autonomous vehicle. But regulators have still (reasonably) decided that their inability to cope with software quirks should be treated as a software problem and not a problem with the pilots' failure to rectify the erratic behaviour.
dmitriid 8y ago
That pine in the manual is an attempt to weasel out of situations like the one described. No one expects a person who’s not engaged in driving a car to keep the same level of alertness at all times as if they were driving a car.
thebruce87m 8y ago
A system that breeds complacency in a life/death activity is one that kills you.
- erikpukinskis 8y ago
  Not if it also catches fatal mistakes that you would have missed. Then you have to subtract A from B to find out if it is "a system which kills you".
  - thomastjeffery 8y ago
    A system that is capable of saving your life at one point in time, and killing you in another is still "a system which kills you". The difference between outcomes is not a valid conclusion.
    - erikpukinskis 8y ago
      So a seat belt is a system that kills you? What would be an example of a system that doesn't kill you?

gwbas1c 8y ago

I call BS. My Tesla doesn't change lanes without driver confirmation. It requires ACTIVE confirmation from the driver, and is extremely conservative in crossing the line. I frequently take over when it doesn't change lanes fast enough. Most likely the driver was passing someone.

pkulak 8y ago
"changing lanes without driver confirmation" is just another way to say "ran off the road and crashed".
jononor 8y ago
The car may have though it was just following the current lane, like what the original article is about.
dreamcompiler 8y ago
Teslas don't change lanes without confirmation provided they know where the lane is. The problem is that it seems pretty easy to fool a Tesla into thinking the lane is somewhere it isn't.
ClassyJacket 8y ago
It doesn't change lanes when it knows it's changing lanes. If the Tesla thought it was staying in the correct lane, it wouldn't ask for the confirmation.
- strainer 8y ago
  That is the situation for any driver. This discussion is under a nonsense test report and headline btw. The car was moving slowly, around what could easily be identified by gps and vision as some sort of test track or empty lot, with varied and inconsistent markings and no other traffic in sight.
  - pavel_lishin 8y ago
    > That is the situation for any driver. The software running on drivers has been under active development for much longer than Tesla. (I'd start bidding at billions of years, though I'm willing to get argued down to tens of thousands.)