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China was worried about Chinese people using those sites to talk to each other, in a way that could not be censored. The Chinese gov't is far more worried about

by girzel 8y ago

China was worried about Chinese people using those sites to talk to each other, in a way that could not be censored. The Chinese gov't is far more worried about that than "Western values" (though that is occasionally a concern).

NicoJuicy 8y ago
Then why would they sponsor Chinese owned media in London?
jorblumesea 8y ago
Based on the moves they've been making recently, I don't think that's true. Investments into Reddit, Hollywood and gaming companies show China is attempting to buy influence and soft power. China knows that if it gets sanctioned because of its actions, such as Uighur concentration camps, it faces internal unrest and possible revolt.
- girzel 8y ago
  Soft power influence out and defensive action against influence in are two different ball games. Again, I'm not denying that the Chinese gov't is worried about a general miasmic incursion of foreign values, just that that's relatively low on their list of concerns. I think it once was a bigger deal to them, but they've since realized that it's not such a danger. Thing number one is preventing their own citizens from communicating and organizing among themselves. Thing number two is the international soft-power push, mostly aimed at muddying the waters of public discourse enough that they are no longer the unquestionable bad guy (the goal here is simply to damp down international criticism). Preventing the spread of "Western democratic values" and "universal human rights" in China is a concern, but probably doesn't make third place, or even fourth.
teknologist 8y ago
I'm not sure that this is so accurate. GitHub is not blocked at all and neither was Reddit until recently. The recent "996" debacle on GitHub has demonstrated that Chinese people are able to "talk to each other" through these foreign sites with no trouble at all.
- abc-xyz 8y ago
  China (and a few other authoritarian countries) have blocked and attacked GitHub numerous times due to repos that are critical of the government or help bypass censorship (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_GitHub https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_GitHub). But blocking GitHub has proven to be very costly so they're often forced to revert the decision. That's why GitHub appear to be the perfect place to host and promote truthful content (e.g. wiki articles about tiananmen massacre, xijiang concentration camps, etc) along with detailed instructions to bypass censorship. Right now it appear that at best China can prevent a specific URL from being shared on weixin/weibo/etc but can't stop people from opening the repo if they find a creative way to share it after (e.g. put the link in an image and modify the image slightly to change its hash before sharing it).
  - teknologist 8y ago
    Who let the wumaos out? More specifically, who gave them control over this site? YCombinator should really fix this broken “points” system to prevent downvote spam.
    - dang 8y ago
      This breaks the site guideline against insinuations of astroturfing. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and don't do that on HN. More explanation and links in this post upthread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19538691 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19538691.
- outlace 8y ago
  GitHub was blocked in the past but it was unblocked after much protest from Chinese developers
  - NicoJuicy 8y ago
    It's incrementally more difficult to use GitHub outside normal working hours.

by girzel 8y ago

NicoJuicy 8y ago

Then why would they sponsor Chinese owned media in London?

jorblumesea 8y ago

Based on the moves they've been making recently, I don't think that's true. Investments into Reddit, Hollywood and gaming companies show China is attempting to buy influence and soft power. China knows that if it gets sanctioned because of its actions, such as Uighur concentration camps, it faces internal unrest and possible revolt.

girzel 8y ago
Soft power influence out and defensive action against influence in are two different ball games. Again, I'm not denying that the Chinese gov't is worried about a general miasmic incursion of foreign values, just that that's relatively low on their list of concerns. I think it once was a bigger deal to them, but they've since realized that it's not such a danger. Thing number one is preventing their own citizens from communicating and organizing among themselves. Thing number two is the international soft-power push, mostly aimed at muddying the waters of public discourse enough that they are no longer the unquestionable bad guy (the goal here is simply to damp down international criticism). Preventing the spread of "Western democratic values" and "universal human rights" in China is a concern, but probably doesn't make third place, or even fourth.

teknologist 8y ago

I'm not sure that this is so accurate. GitHub is not blocked at all and neither was Reddit until recently. The recent "996" debacle on GitHub has demonstrated that Chinese people are able to "talk to each other" through these foreign sites with no trouble at all.

abc-xyz 8y ago
China (and a few other authoritarian countries) have blocked and attacked GitHub numerous times due to repos that are critical of the government or help bypass censorship (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_GitHub https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_GitHub). But blocking GitHub has proven to be very costly so they're often forced to revert the decision. That's why GitHub appear to be the perfect place to host and promote truthful content (e.g. wiki articles about tiananmen massacre, xijiang concentration camps, etc) along with detailed instructions to bypass censorship. Right now it appear that at best China can prevent a specific URL from being shared on weixin/weibo/etc but can't stop people from opening the repo if they find a creative way to share it after (e.g. put the link in an image and modify the image slightly to change its hash before sharing it).
- teknologist 8y ago
  Who let the wumaos out? More specifically, who gave them control over this site? YCombinator should really fix this broken “points” system to prevent downvote spam.
  - dang 8y ago
    This breaks the site guideline against insinuations of astroturfing. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and don't do that on HN. More explanation and links in this post upthread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19538691 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19538691.
outlace 8y ago
GitHub was blocked in the past but it was unblocked after much protest from Chinese developers
- NicoJuicy 8y ago
  It's incrementally more difficult to use GitHub outside normal working hours.