6 ms·

The Star Trek Computer Is Stupid

23 points by coderdude 16y ago

InclinedPlane 16y ago
Every technology in Star Trek works this way. Everything is borderline magic and incredibly overpowered up until the point that it just doesn't work. Many Star Trek episodes careen between negative to positive deus ex machinae until the plot is finally resolved. The fact that somehow out of this sludge good story writing can even occur is a marvel. As to the "Semantic Web", it seems to have become this generation's AI future. In reality the semantic web is likely harder and far more limited than anyone has given credit. People have fallen victim to the same old confusion of computers and the human mind. Merely because computers are able to perform quite sophisticated and complex tasks does not mean that they will be capable of performing any and every thing a human mind can. Computer systems will likely work along lines of shockingly different characteristics to the human mind for some time to come. Furthermore, we should not be stacking the future on unproven and questionably useful panaceae. Remember when the future of the web was VRML? Remember when it was "portals"? Predicting the future of the web more than a few years out is a sure fire way to lose a lot of money, time, and effort.
- pyre 16y ago
  In other words: "Where's my flying car and personal robot assistant?"
- derefr 16y ago
  On Star Trek: it has, at every opportunity, asserted the ideal of "we are humans, exploring space, because that is the point—the terminal good of our utility function. If we automated everything, we would no longer be humans exploring space, so automate we don't." For the first instance of this, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ultimate_Computer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ultimate_Computer — but it proceeds pretty much like that, although a bit subtler, for every series after that.
  - arethuza 16y ago
    The "automated everything" approach is pretty much what the Culture do - starships are run by artificial Minds of near God-like intellect and power and they have humans along for pets/companions/passengers. The ships themselves are fairly memorable characters from the Culture novels (e.g. the Grey Area, Xenophobe and the Falling Outside The Normal Moral Constraints). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture
    - derefr 16y ago
      Having not read any Culture novels yet (but planning to), is there any mention of how [non-trans-]humans managed to survive an AI Singularity?
      - trezor 16y ago
        You have Charles Stross' Accelerando which kind of covers this sort of scenario. I'm not 100% enthusiastic about the book, especially how things were rounded up at the end, but that's my usual reaction to books which are very vivid, imaginative and does lots of exciting things on the way to their conclusion. Not a Culture-novel, but you could do worse.
      - rsaarelm 16y ago
        As far as I can tell, the handwave explanation is that seriously posthumanity-oriented civilizations always end up moving away from the material universe in some vaguely specified way when they improve themselves sufficiently far. The Culture and other advanced civilizations who are still hanging around are inveterate eccentrics obsessed with sticking close to their biological baseline.
      - arethuza 16y ago
        The Culture books don't directly address the topic of a technological singularity, although Look to Windward has the Culture dealing with a society that has partially "sublimed" - which might be similar. I second the recommendation for Accelerando below - it is perhaps a little disjointed, but it is really a collection of short stories rather than a single novel, so this is understandable. Few books have the idea density of Accelerando. Charlie Stross hangs out on HN as well! Personally, I think the best idea of what it might be like in the run up to a singularity is Vernor Vinge's Rainbows End - the settings and technology are plausible and as a parent the idea of young kids augmented with information technology being fundamentally more capable than the previous generation is fascinating.
maushu 16y ago
As always with any fiction, vehicles travel at the speed of the plot, technology works efficiently as the plot requires and the universe laws are bent to fit the plot. Besides, like others have said, if the ship's computer was that good... why have humans there?
- lotharbot 16y ago
  Of course, Lt. Commander Data is that good, but he looks human so it's OK.
RyanMcGreal 16y ago
Against the apparently total absence of breakers anywhere in the bridge console circuitry, the computer's passive-aggressive refusal to anticipate requests seems pretty tame by comparison.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  Not to mention the holodecks which trapped crewmembers in deadly fantasy worlds twice per season, but were never given a physical "power off" switch. (Admittedly, a phenomenon of later trek shows more than the first two.)
  - RyanMcGreal 16y ago
    You should always have a "safe word" for when a fantasy starts to get too dangerous.
    - billswift 16y ago
      And then you have to trust your partner/computer to respond to it.
      - RyanMcGreal 16y ago
        I'm sorry, Commander Riker. I'm afraid I can't do that.
        billswift 16y ago
        I was thinking more of "Why should I stop? I like it."
      - chronomex 16y ago
        Computer, end program
Semiapies 16y ago
The only thing that spoiled this for me was every single reference to Star Trek. Star Trek captains never give instructions to or ask questions of the computer in battle. The captain is always talking to another crew member who's at a control station. Outside of battle, it's clear that a ship's or station's verbal computer interface is just a spoken command line, complete with scripting capability, and about as dangerous if you don't rattle off a reasonably precise command.

23 points by coderdude 16y ago

Every technology in Star Trek works this way. Everything is borderline magic and incredibly overpowered up until the point that it just doesn't work. Many Star Trek episodes careen between negative to positive deus ex machinae until the plot is finally resolved. The fact that somehow out of this sludge good story writing can even occur is a marvel. As to the "Semantic Web", it seems to have become this generation's AI future. In reality the semantic web is likely harder and far more limited than anyone has given credit. People have fallen victim to the same old confusion of computers and the human mind. Merely because computers are able to perform quite sophisticated and complex tasks does not mean that they will be capable of performing any and every thing a human mind can. Computer systems will likely work along lines of shockingly different characteristics to the human mind for some time to come. Furthermore, we should not be stacking the future on unproven and questionably useful panaceae. Remember when the future of the web was VRML? Remember when it was "portals"? Predicting the future of the web more than a few years out is a sure fire way to lose a lot of money, time, and effort.

pyre 16y ago
In other words: "Where's my flying car and personal robot assistant?"
derefr 16y ago
On Star Trek: it has, at every opportunity, asserted the ideal of "we are humans, exploring space, because that is the point—the terminal good of our utility function. If we automated everything, we would no longer be humans exploring space, so automate we don't." For the first instance of this, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ultimate_Computer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ultimate_Computer — but it proceeds pretty much like that, although a bit subtler, for every series after that.
- arethuza 16y ago
  The "automated everything" approach is pretty much what the Culture do - starships are run by artificial Minds of near God-like intellect and power and they have humans along for pets/companions/passengers. The ships themselves are fairly memorable characters from the Culture novels (e.g. the Grey Area, Xenophobe and the Falling Outside The Normal Moral Constraints). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture
  - derefr 16y ago
    Having not read any Culture novels yet (but planning to), is there any mention of how [non-trans-]humans managed to survive an AI Singularity?
    - trezor 16y ago
      You have Charles Stross' Accelerando which kind of covers this sort of scenario. I'm not 100% enthusiastic about the book, especially how things were rounded up at the end, but that's my usual reaction to books which are very vivid, imaginative and does lots of exciting things on the way to their conclusion. Not a Culture-novel, but you could do worse.
    - rsaarelm 16y ago
      As far as I can tell, the handwave explanation is that seriously posthumanity-oriented civilizations always end up moving away from the material universe in some vaguely specified way when they improve themselves sufficiently far. The Culture and other advanced civilizations who are still hanging around are inveterate eccentrics obsessed with sticking close to their biological baseline.
    - arethuza 16y ago
      The Culture books don't directly address the topic of a technological singularity, although Look to Windward has the Culture dealing with a society that has partially "sublimed" - which might be similar. I second the recommendation for Accelerando below - it is perhaps a little disjointed, but it is really a collection of short stories rather than a single novel, so this is understandable. Few books have the idea density of Accelerando. Charlie Stross hangs out on HN as well! Personally, I think the best idea of what it might be like in the run up to a singularity is Vernor Vinge's Rainbows End - the settings and technology are plausible and as a parent the idea of young kids augmented with information technology being fundamentally more capable than the previous generation is fascinating.

maushu 16y ago

As always with any fiction, vehicles travel at the speed of the plot, technology works efficiently as the plot requires and the universe laws are bent to fit the plot. Besides, like others have said, if the ship's computer was that good... why have humans there?

lotharbot 16y ago
Of course, Lt. Commander Data is that good, but he looks human so it's OK.

RyanMcGreal 16y ago

Against the apparently total absence of breakers anywhere in the bridge console circuitry, the computer's passive-aggressive refusal to anticipate requests seems pretty tame by comparison.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
yummyfajitas 16y ago
Not to mention the holodecks which trapped crewmembers in deadly fantasy worlds twice per season, but were never given a physical "power off" switch. (Admittedly, a phenomenon of later trek shows more than the first two.)
- RyanMcGreal 16y ago
  You should always have a "safe word" for when a fantasy starts to get too dangerous.
  - billswift 16y ago
    And then you have to trust your partner/computer to respond to it.
    - RyanMcGreal 16y ago
      I'm sorry, Commander Riker. I'm afraid I can't do that.
      - billswift 16y ago
        I was thinking more of "Why should I stop? I like it."
    - chronomex 16y ago
      Computer, end program

Semiapies 16y ago

The only thing that spoiled this for me was every single reference to Star Trek. Star Trek captains never give instructions to or ask questions of the computer in battle. The captain is always talking to another crew member who's at a control station. Outside of battle, it's clear that a ship's or station's verbal computer interface is just a spoken command line, complete with scripting capability, and about as dangerous if you don't rattle off a reasonably precise command.