4 ms·

I'd imagine it would be correlated almost 1:1 with unemployment statistics, which are very well documented.

by swebs 8y ago

tonyedgecombe 8y ago
Interesting, I would have assumed no correlation with unemployment statistics.
- Filligree 8y ago
  Almost by definition, you can't be hikikomori if you're employed. So there's at least that.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - tonyedgecombe 8y ago
    True, although I would have thought they fell outside the definition of unemployed as well as they aren’t seeking work.
  - astura 8y ago
    The most common unemployment statistics only include people actively seeking employment. Since you'd 1) be actually willing to work and 2) have to interact with strangers to go on job interviews, it that wouldn't be considered a hikkomori. Unemployed almost never includes retired people and 36.2% of those surveyed cited retirement as a trigger for social withdraw.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
Ultramanoid 8y ago
There are European countries with 5%, 10%, 15% unemployment numbers. It'd be insane if they had that percentage of completely recluse population. And they obviously don't.
- MagnumOpus 8y ago
  He said 1:1 correlated, not 1:1 equal. I.e. if for the sake of argument one in five unemployed are shut-ins but nearly no employed people are, then you have a good starting point to estimate populations.
- igi3ql 8y ago
  Unemployment of the youth in Spain is at >33% now.
hrktb 8y ago
it must have been, but with the internet remote activities have diversified enough to allow to have what would qualify as part time job without leaving the room/house. For instance blogging, affiliate ads, game streaming, youtube ads, etc. This might not a big part of the pie, but it’s not 0 either.
- zitterbewegung 8y ago
  In the article they state that people that are hikikomori don't have a job. I would assume that if you are a content creator with income that stays at home all day you would be left out of the study.
  - VLM 8y ago
    I think as a large scale societal issue, we are about to see a lot more gatekeeping where modern, microtransaction, power-law distribution of revenue income streams don't really mean anything financially, but will disqualify participants from help and assistance to "save program money". If you amazon turk'd once for $2 total, you have a "job" so no help with medical care for you, etc. Its likely the way the market will "fight" modern gig economy business models is by weaponizing socialized support systems. If you ever uber and make $5 or get $50 from admob annual income for a youtube channel, you're "a rich self employed small businessperson" with substantial legal and taxation reporting requirements and an official "job" so no college student loans for you, no food stamps, etc. Fight the business model by drying up the supply. If the only people doing mturk, uber, or recording youtube content are either dirt poor or independently wealthy, that will eliminate that segment of the marketplace via lack of supply. The income from gig economy isn't enough to live, so survival will dictate abandonment of the gig economy. The legacy marketplace players have a large financial motivation to implement something like this. I don't think taxi drivers or legacy TV network execs will oppose shenanigans that wipe out the gig economy.
  - hrktb 8y ago
    The japanese article has a definition of how they labelled people. https://www.asahi.com/articles/ASM3R4DZQM3RULZU005.html https://www.asahi.com/articles/ASM3R4DZQM3RULZU005.html It’s still pretty vague, my rough translation: “people who didn’t participate in social activities, like school or work for more than 6 months”. Also it’s stressed that this time they didn’t automatically remove at home spouses, and they were flagged as hikikomori if they had almost no interaction outside of their family. I wouldn’t surprised if blogging or content creating on the net would be excluded from “social participation” or not seen as communication in general.

I'd imagine it would be correlated almost 1:1 with unemployment statistics, which are very well documented.

by swebs 8y ago

I'd imagine it would be correlated almost 1:1 with unemployment statistics, which are very well documented.

tonyedgecombe 8y ago

Interesting, I would have assumed no correlation with unemployment statistics.

Filligree 8y ago
Almost by definition, you can't be hikikomori if you're employed. So there's at least that.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- tonyedgecombe 8y ago
  True, although I would have thought they fell outside the definition of unemployed as well as they aren’t seeking work.
- astura 8y ago
  The most common unemployment statistics only include people actively seeking employment. Since you'd 1) be actually willing to work and 2) have to interact with strangers to go on job interviews, it that wouldn't be considered a hikkomori. Unemployed almost never includes retired people and 36.2% of those surveyed cited retirement as a trigger for social withdraw.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

Ultramanoid 8y ago

There are European countries with 5%, 10%, 15% unemployment numbers. It'd be insane if they had that percentage of completely recluse population. And they obviously don't.

MagnumOpus 8y ago
He said 1:1 correlated, not 1:1 equal. I.e. if for the sake of argument one in five unemployed are shut-ins but nearly no employed people are, then you have a good starting point to estimate populations.
igi3ql 8y ago
Unemployment of the youth in Spain is at >33% now.

hrktb 8y ago

it must have been, but with the internet remote activities have diversified enough to allow to have what would qualify as part time job without leaving the room/house. For instance blogging, affiliate ads, game streaming, youtube ads, etc. This might not a big part of the pie, but it’s not 0 either.

zitterbewegung 8y ago
In the article they state that people that are hikikomori don't have a job. I would assume that if you are a content creator with income that stays at home all day you would be left out of the study.
- VLM 8y ago
  I think as a large scale societal issue, we are about to see a lot more gatekeeping where modern, microtransaction, power-law distribution of revenue income streams don't really mean anything financially, but will disqualify participants from help and assistance to "save program money". If you amazon turk'd once for $2 total, you have a "job" so no help with medical care for you, etc. Its likely the way the market will "fight" modern gig economy business models is by weaponizing socialized support systems. If you ever uber and make $5 or get $50 from admob annual income for a youtube channel, you're "a rich self employed small businessperson" with substantial legal and taxation reporting requirements and an official "job" so no college student loans for you, no food stamps, etc. Fight the business model by drying up the supply. If the only people doing mturk, uber, or recording youtube content are either dirt poor or independently wealthy, that will eliminate that segment of the marketplace via lack of supply. The income from gig economy isn't enough to live, so survival will dictate abandonment of the gig economy. The legacy marketplace players have a large financial motivation to implement something like this. I don't think taxi drivers or legacy TV network execs will oppose shenanigans that wipe out the gig economy.
- hrktb 8y ago
  The japanese article has a definition of how they labelled people. https://www.asahi.com/articles/ASM3R4DZQM3RULZU005.html https://www.asahi.com/articles/ASM3R4DZQM3RULZU005.html It’s still pretty vague, my rough translation: “people who didn’t participate in social activities, like school or work for more than 6 months”. Also it’s stressed that this time they didn’t automatically remove at home spouses, and they were flagged as hikikomori if they had almost no interaction outside of their family. I wouldn’t surprised if blogging or content creating on the net would be excluded from “social participation” or not seen as communication in general.