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Now I'm curious about what you have read lately. The Technological Society by Ellul was a good start for me. Yes, there's a lot of wishful thinking and religio

Now I'm curious about what you have read lately. The Technological Society by Ellul was a good start for me. Yes, there's a lot of wishful thinking and religious zeal out there, helped by the modern "we can f* up your brain and you won't even notice it" techniques. It seems to me you can spend your whole life developing some free software which gets used, among other things, to create tons of money for other people. Makes you wonder (at least it makes me wonder), if this whole thing is not meant or at least supported by the good guys and girls who know how to make a buck and can convince even your granny to learn html because knowing how-to-web it's the new literacy while the purpose might be no other than "not even third-world countries want to work at boring websites, so we have no one to do the dirty work now. How can we convince some poor souls to do it, and freely too." I'm really interested if you have something in the department. A nice article, a good book, something that can be used to wake one from it's slumber.

vinceguidry 8y ago
The Bible. Wish I could offer something more accessible. But a better read on the nature of hells, belief, faith, false gods, and how to find a true path to salvation can't be found. Haven't picked mine up in awhile. Should probably fix that. I spend my time these days writing rather than reading. Chasing my own muse. Quora is my usual outlet, though I'll occasionally feel compelled to comment on HN.
- paulryanrogers 8y ago
  Having wasted a significant portion of my youth on said book I would not recommend it. The whole thing boils down to devoting yourself to a (IMO) demanding, bigoted, homophobic, and imaginary being. Whatever crumbs of truth (treat others like you want to be treated, life is short, etc.) included are better expressed elsewhere and without all the baggage.
  - vinceguidry 8y ago
    That's why I said I wish I had something more accessible. Unless you already have the penchant for belief the Bible is just going to feel that way. It's an ancient text written for ancient peoples. You need a map to the Bible in order to really understand it. I like YouTube videos, and the best ones I've seen on this topic are the ones by the Bible Project. https://www.youtube.com/user/jointhebibleproject https://www.youtube.com/user/jointhebibleproject And they only feel like crumbs because we've spent the last 2000 years building a society based on those ideas. But they were new and shiny at one point in time. Just like tech is new and shiny now.
  - treetis 8y ago
    Using those words, it sounds like you're angry at God.
  - smoyer 8y ago
    But the greatest commandment is this ... love one another.
    - wool_gather 8y ago
      Eh, this goes immediately into what parent is talking about. "Love one another" comes first only according to one of the four tellings of this scene (John's). The other three say that loving "the Lord your God" comes first. Matthew: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+22:36-40 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+22:36-4... Mark: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+12%3A28-31 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+12%3A28-31 Luke: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+10%3A25-28&version=ESV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+10%3A25-28...
      - athenot 8y ago
        It's a lot more than a hierarchy of "love God, then perhaps others if you have anything left". Here's the context showing the tight coupling between human love and divine love: We love because he first loved us. Those who say, "I love God," and hate their brothers or sisters, are liars; for those who do not love a brother or sister whom they have seen, cannot love God whom they have not seen. The commandment we have from him is this: those who love God must love their brothers and sisters also.[1] Elsewhere there's the commandment to "love as I loved you", i.e. love others to the point of dying for others. The standard set is incredibly high and hard—hence the Saints, whose lives & sacrifices are commemorated for their selflessness despite other struggles and failings. [1] First letter of John, ch 4
        wool_gather 8y ago
        The actual theology is pretty beside the point here. Really, you're just reinforcing the original observation that paulryanrogers made, which was that getting moral or ethical guidance from the Bible, as a non-religious, requires slogging through many layers that only apply to believers.
  - nickpsecurity 8y ago
    As an ex-Christian, I can still offer a more charitable view: just read the Golden Rule, love your neighbor as yourself, practice virtues of Galatians 5:22-23, and read Proverbs. That's the best parts of it that even a non-religious, utilitarian society might want to keep. The Christians I know that practice what they can of those values with less focus on judging people are among the best people I've ever met. They do more good and less harm than average person. So, there's good takeaways even if there's lots of bad stuff in there. I'll throw in Buddhism and Confucianism given they have some good advice. As always, keep the good tossing out the bad or questionable stuff.
  - rsyring 8y ago
    Having wasted a significant portion of my youth pursuing whatever I wanted only to later realize I was enslaved to the very things I thought I was pursuing freely, I can wholeheartedly recommend the Bible as that which gave me true freedom. Many of it's teachings are certainly counter-cultural. And it does take time and effort to learn and interpret wisely. But I find much in the Bible that is very applicable to life today and, arguably more important, applicable to the life to come. As for the imaginary part, there are plenty of rational reasons to consider the claims of the Bible. This isn't a bad start: http://www.veritas.org/how-does-christianity-measure-up/ http://www.veritas.org/how-does-christianity-measure-up/ A lot of it boils down to your own personal presuppositions and worldview. For more advanced treatment that gets to the heart of how we know what we know and how our presuppositions affect what we think we know: https://www.amazon.com/Doctrine-Knowledge-God-Theology-Lordship/dp/0875522629 https://www.amazon.com/Doctrine-Knowledge-God-Theology-Lords...
    - paulryanrogers 8y ago
      > A lot of it boils down to your own personal presuppositions and worldview. Maybe. But my early worldview was shaped almost entirely by Bible believers. Now after thirty years my perspective has changed. And it's hard to see value in evaluating the world from ideas and testimonies that cannot be proven, especially those that condemn those born different.
- kr4 8y ago
  You may find Om Swami's books interesting and accessible in modern time to understand the potential that each one of us carry for mystical enlightenment. For instance the book on kundalini: https://www.amazon.com/Kundalini-Untold-Story-Himalayan/dp/0994002793 https://www.amazon.com/Kundalini-Untold-Story-Himalayan/dp/0... >>> Kundalini is your polar opposite within you. When it awakens, you realize how immensely powerful you already are. You experience how there is a whole universe within you. It is your feminine energy if you are a man and your masculine energy if you are a woman. It is your passage, your path to eternal fulfillment within you. >>> when you start meditating on the chakras, it is only from your experiences and newly gained abilities that you come to know that a transformation is taking place within you. The greatest transformation upon the awakening of the kundalini is not that you see blinding light (although, that can happen and has happened to me on numerous occasions) or you feel feather-light or you feel highly energetic. These are epiphenomena. This is not the real product; it’s more like buttermilk than the actual butter. The real transformation upon the awakening of kundalini is that you shed your old tendencies and negativity like a snake sheds its old skin. You no longer feel angry or flustered over trivial matters unlike the earlier times. Your emotions and thoughts don’t overpower and trample all over you anymore. You begin to gain control of yourself. ‘Supranormal’ streams of creativity and energy gush forth at the awakening, surprising even you with talents you never thought you had. >>> Awakening of the kundalini is reaching your innermost state of bliss and joy. This state is covered with ten layers – desire, anger, greed, attachment, ego, passion, jealousy, hatred, fear and selfconcern. As you elevate spiritually, you start shedding these layers. These avarana, layers, veil the true you. The real you that is beyond the duality of pain and grief, good and bad, moral and immoral. Awakening is a steady and gradual process on the path of kundalini sadhana. It is not an instant realization. It builds up, it grows on you. With each level of awakening, you discover bit more about the new you and you shed bit more of the old you. >>> Awakening of the kundalini is realization of your pure abstract intelligence, the type that is not conditioned by your fears, emotions and worries. It is your pristine nature. When you are able to tap into this latent source of energy, you truly become the master of your universe. You can manifest whatever you wish in your life because your scale of consciousness is no longer limited to your body alone; it envelops the whole universe. >>> What’s even more beautiful is that anyone who is willing to put in the effort can experience it.

vinceguidry 8y ago

The Bible. Wish I could offer something more accessible. But a better read on the nature of hells, belief, faith, false gods, and how to find a true path to salvation can't be found. Haven't picked mine up in awhile. Should probably fix that. I spend my time these days writing rather than reading. Chasing my own muse. Quora is my usual outlet, though I'll occasionally feel compelled to comment on HN.

paulryanrogers 8y ago
Having wasted a significant portion of my youth on said book I would not recommend it. The whole thing boils down to devoting yourself to a (IMO) demanding, bigoted, homophobic, and imaginary being. Whatever crumbs of truth (treat others like you want to be treated, life is short, etc.) included are better expressed elsewhere and without all the baggage.
- vinceguidry 8y ago
  That's why I said I wish I had something more accessible. Unless you already have the penchant for belief the Bible is just going to feel that way. It's an ancient text written for ancient peoples. You need a map to the Bible in order to really understand it. I like YouTube videos, and the best ones I've seen on this topic are the ones by the Bible Project. https://www.youtube.com/user/jointhebibleproject https://www.youtube.com/user/jointhebibleproject And they only feel like crumbs because we've spent the last 2000 years building a society based on those ideas. But they were new and shiny at one point in time. Just like tech is new and shiny now.
- treetis 8y ago
  Using those words, it sounds like you're angry at God.
- smoyer 8y ago
  But the greatest commandment is this ... love one another.
  - wool_gather 8y ago
    Eh, this goes immediately into what parent is talking about. "Love one another" comes first only according to one of the four tellings of this scene (John's). The other three say that loving "the Lord your God" comes first. Matthew: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+22:36-40 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+22:36-4... Mark: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+12%3A28-31 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+12%3A28-31 Luke: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+10%3A25-28&version=ESV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+10%3A25-28...
    - athenot 8y ago
      It's a lot more than a hierarchy of "love God, then perhaps others if you have anything left". Here's the context showing the tight coupling between human love and divine love: We love because he first loved us. Those who say, "I love God," and hate their brothers or sisters, are liars; for those who do not love a brother or sister whom they have seen, cannot love God whom they have not seen. The commandment we have from him is this: those who love God must love their brothers and sisters also.[1] Elsewhere there's the commandment to "love as I loved you", i.e. love others to the point of dying for others. The standard set is incredibly high and hard—hence the Saints, whose lives & sacrifices are commemorated for their selflessness despite other struggles and failings. [1] First letter of John, ch 4
      - wool_gather 8y ago
        The actual theology is pretty beside the point here. Really, you're just reinforcing the original observation that paulryanrogers made, which was that getting moral or ethical guidance from the Bible, as a non-religious, requires slogging through many layers that only apply to believers.
- nickpsecurity 8y ago
  As an ex-Christian, I can still offer a more charitable view: just read the Golden Rule, love your neighbor as yourself, practice virtues of Galatians 5:22-23, and read Proverbs. That's the best parts of it that even a non-religious, utilitarian society might want to keep. The Christians I know that practice what they can of those values with less focus on judging people are among the best people I've ever met. They do more good and less harm than average person. So, there's good takeaways even if there's lots of bad stuff in there. I'll throw in Buddhism and Confucianism given they have some good advice. As always, keep the good tossing out the bad or questionable stuff.
- rsyring 8y ago
  Having wasted a significant portion of my youth pursuing whatever I wanted only to later realize I was enslaved to the very things I thought I was pursuing freely, I can wholeheartedly recommend the Bible as that which gave me true freedom. Many of it's teachings are certainly counter-cultural. And it does take time and effort to learn and interpret wisely. But I find much in the Bible that is very applicable to life today and, arguably more important, applicable to the life to come. As for the imaginary part, there are plenty of rational reasons to consider the claims of the Bible. This isn't a bad start: http://www.veritas.org/how-does-christianity-measure-up/ http://www.veritas.org/how-does-christianity-measure-up/ A lot of it boils down to your own personal presuppositions and worldview. For more advanced treatment that gets to the heart of how we know what we know and how our presuppositions affect what we think we know: https://www.amazon.com/Doctrine-Knowledge-God-Theology-Lordship/dp/0875522629 https://www.amazon.com/Doctrine-Knowledge-God-Theology-Lords...
  - paulryanrogers 8y ago
    > A lot of it boils down to your own personal presuppositions and worldview. Maybe. But my early worldview was shaped almost entirely by Bible believers. Now after thirty years my perspective has changed. And it's hard to see value in evaluating the world from ideas and testimonies that cannot be proven, especially those that condemn those born different.
kr4 8y ago
You may find Om Swami's books interesting and accessible in modern time to understand the potential that each one of us carry for mystical enlightenment. For instance the book on kundalini: https://www.amazon.com/Kundalini-Untold-Story-Himalayan/dp/0994002793 https://www.amazon.com/Kundalini-Untold-Story-Himalayan/dp/0... >>> Kundalini is your polar opposite within you. When it awakens, you realize how immensely powerful you already are. You experience how there is a whole universe within you. It is your feminine energy if you are a man and your masculine energy if you are a woman. It is your passage, your path to eternal fulfillment within you. >>> when you start meditating on the chakras, it is only from your experiences and newly gained abilities that you come to know that a transformation is taking place within you. The greatest transformation upon the awakening of the kundalini is not that you see blinding light (although, that can happen and has happened to me on numerous occasions) or you feel feather-light or you feel highly energetic. These are epiphenomena. This is not the real product; it’s more like buttermilk than the actual butter. The real transformation upon the awakening of kundalini is that you shed your old tendencies and negativity like a snake sheds its old skin. You no longer feel angry or flustered over trivial matters unlike the earlier times. Your emotions and thoughts don’t overpower and trample all over you anymore. You begin to gain control of yourself. ‘Supranormal’ streams of creativity and energy gush forth at the awakening, surprising even you with talents you never thought you had. >>> Awakening of the kundalini is reaching your innermost state of bliss and joy. This state is covered with ten layers – desire, anger, greed, attachment, ego, passion, jealousy, hatred, fear and selfconcern. As you elevate spiritually, you start shedding these layers. These avarana, layers, veil the true you. The real you that is beyond the duality of pain and grief, good and bad, moral and immoral. Awakening is a steady and gradual process on the path of kundalini sadhana. It is not an instant realization. It builds up, it grows on you. With each level of awakening, you discover bit more about the new you and you shed bit more of the old you. >>> Awakening of the kundalini is realization of your pure abstract intelligence, the type that is not conditioned by your fears, emotions and worries. It is your pristine nature. When you are able to tap into this latent source of energy, you truly become the master of your universe. You can manifest whatever you wish in your life because your scale of consciousness is no longer limited to your body alone; it envelops the whole universe. >>> What’s even more beautiful is that anyone who is willing to put in the effort can experience it.