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"Probably the most important thing it does is to keep the world from descending into a flaming fireball of constant wars between countries" How many millions w

"Probably the most important thing it does is to keep the world from descending into a flaming fireball of constant wars between countries" How many millions were killed by government in the 20th century? WW1, WWII, concentration camps, gulags, Mao's great leap forward, Vietnam, and the list goes on. War has been a constant for most of the 21st century. There is a strong argument that much of the above would not have been feasible without large centralized states.

pm90 8y ago
> There is a strong argument that much of the above would not have been feasible without large centralized states. Precluding that was small states engaged in constant warfare. Note that I'm not saying that centralized states are necessarily the solution, but that the US Federal Government has been successful in its objective of preventing further World Wars and that itself is a huge achievement.
- provolone 8y ago
  Naturally I disagree. The US has been waging a never ending global war on "terror" since 2001. I'll also cite Hans Herman Hoppe's lecture refuting Steven Pinker. Apologies in advance for his thorough technique. "Pinker devotes some 10 pages (pp. 228-238) to this case, and the central information is condensed in a single graph (p. 230) depicting the “rate of death in conflicts in greater Europe, 1400-2000.” If anything, however, this graph demonstrates the opposite of Pinker’s progress thesis. What it shows is that the longest period of (relative) peacefulness and low levels of violence were the almost 200 years from 1400 until the very end of the 16th century. Yet this period falls precisely within the longer period of the European Middle Ages (and marks its end), and the Middle Ages, as I have argued before, are a prime example of a State-less social order. (Interestingly, Pinker concurs with this assessment of medieval Europe as State-less, but he then fails to see that this assessment implies, according to his own data, an empirical refutation of his thesis.) And it gets worse for Pinker’s case. According to the same graph, the following historical period, from the late 16th century on to the present, is characterized by three huge spikes in the level of violence. The first spike, from the late 16th century until the Westphalian Peace in 1648, is largely associated with the 30-Years-War; the second, from the late 18th century until 1815 and somewhat less steep than the first, is associated with the French Revolution and the Napoleonic Wars; and the third and greatest spike, from 1914-1945, is associated with the 20th century’s two World Wars. As well, for all intermediate periods, the level of violence remained well above that of medieval times and this level was only reached again, three centuries later, during the period from 1815-1914, and again during the post-WW II era. All in all, then, the record for post-medieval Europe in terms of violence appears rather depressive. And yet, the entire period, from the late 16th century until today, is the era of States, which Pinker considers the driving forces of a “civilizing process.” " https://mises.org/wire/libertarian-quest-grand-historical-narrative https://mises.org/wire/libertarian-quest-grand-historical-na... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTWrFTFxGbk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTWrFTFxGbk

pm90 8y ago

> There is a strong argument that much of the above would not have been feasible without large centralized states. Precluding that was small states engaged in constant warfare. Note that I'm not saying that centralized states are necessarily the solution, but that the US Federal Government has been successful in its objective of preventing further World Wars and that itself is a huge achievement.

provolone 8y ago
Naturally I disagree. The US has been waging a never ending global war on "terror" since 2001. I'll also cite Hans Herman Hoppe's lecture refuting Steven Pinker. Apologies in advance for his thorough technique. "Pinker devotes some 10 pages (pp. 228-238) to this case, and the central information is condensed in a single graph (p. 230) depicting the “rate of death in conflicts in greater Europe, 1400-2000.” If anything, however, this graph demonstrates the opposite of Pinker’s progress thesis. What it shows is that the longest period of (relative) peacefulness and low levels of violence were the almost 200 years from 1400 until the very end of the 16th century. Yet this period falls precisely within the longer period of the European Middle Ages (and marks its end), and the Middle Ages, as I have argued before, are a prime example of a State-less social order. (Interestingly, Pinker concurs with this assessment of medieval Europe as State-less, but he then fails to see that this assessment implies, according to his own data, an empirical refutation of his thesis.) And it gets worse for Pinker’s case. According to the same graph, the following historical period, from the late 16th century on to the present, is characterized by three huge spikes in the level of violence. The first spike, from the late 16th century until the Westphalian Peace in 1648, is largely associated with the 30-Years-War; the second, from the late 18th century until 1815 and somewhat less steep than the first, is associated with the French Revolution and the Napoleonic Wars; and the third and greatest spike, from 1914-1945, is associated with the 20th century’s two World Wars. As well, for all intermediate periods, the level of violence remained well above that of medieval times and this level was only reached again, three centuries later, during the period from 1815-1914, and again during the post-WW II era. All in all, then, the record for post-medieval Europe in terms of violence appears rather depressive. And yet, the entire period, from the late 16th century until today, is the era of States, which Pinker considers the driving forces of a “civilizing process.” " https://mises.org/wire/libertarian-quest-grand-historical-narrative https://mises.org/wire/libertarian-quest-grand-historical-na... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTWrFTFxGbk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTWrFTFxGbk