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Or just don't work for Instacart. The market will raise rates when they cannot find any runners for food.

by qudat 8y ago

djeikyb 8y ago
That's what a strike is! The workers stop until the bosses acknowledge market value.
- pishpash 8y ago
  I mean, that's temporary. Are you saying all workers will agree that only say 20% of them work at a time (rotating) to artificially create scarcity, raising price of labor, then redistribute income amongst themselves in a communal fashion? Because that's strictly worse.
EliRivers 8y ago
There will always be the hopelessly desperate just waiting to be taken advantage of. The market will not magically stop this happening. We must make the choice; maybe we'll choose to allow exploitation of the hopelessly desperate, maybe we won't, but praying to the market to magically fix it won't do a thing.
- pishpash 8y ago
  I think the government should step in with UBI, supplemental income, or some such, but it would be wrong to fix price of labor for one particular industry/market. The latter is just a hack.
- lotsofpulp 8y ago
  No, there won’t. Wages are rising for all levels of employees. Driving a vehicle without dealing with coworkers or a “boss” just happens to be something many, many people can do so as a supplier, you have tons of competition, therefore the prices you can charge are lower. Work towards a position that requires you to be differentiated from others and see your ability to charge more go up.
  - EliRivers 8y ago
    Do you have any evidence that one day there will no longer be hopelessly desperate people? The evidence so far indicates otherwise. Where is your posited utopian future coming from? Wages are rising for all levels of employees. It's my understanding that the evidence indicates this isn't true (for example, https://globalriskinsights.com/2018/01/us-economy-workers-dilemma-declining-wages/ https://globalriskinsights.com/2018/01/us-economy-workers-di... , and many other such). What are you basing this assertion on? Work towards a position that requires you to be differentiated from others and see your ability to charge more go up. This is the standard trite, middle-class advice towards people who are hopelessly desperate and trapped in poverty. The hopelessly desperate cannot do this on their own. They don't have the time, the health, the regular hours, the safety blanket of cash, the lack of children, the support network, even the simple knowledge of how to gain skills, on and on - all the things people need to take your advice. They don't have that. That's what being hopelessly desperate is.
    - lotsofpulp 8y ago
      https://www.frbatlanta.org/chcs/wage-growth-tracker.aspx https://www.frbatlanta.org/chcs/wage-growth-tracker.aspx Wages are rising, at least nominally, of course. I know they the wage and wealth gap is increasing, and the top 10% are running away with almost all the spoils, and is not a good situation. However, the context of my response was to the person you had responded to had said that Instacart would have to pay more if people stopped running food for them, to which you had responded that Instacart wouldn't since there was an endless supply of hopelessly desperate people that Instacart can pull from. Getting from point A to point B, especially with the help of navigation software, is something everyone can do, hence the bottom of the barrel wages. You're competing with almost everyone. Expecting to earn more than the very minimum in that kind of market is unrealistic. Before, the bottom of the barrel jobs were retail/restaurant/hotel/service jobs, but now with Instacart and Uber and whatnot, those are the new bottom of the barrel jobs, and retail/restaurant/hotel/service jobs have had to raise their wages. I understand some people might not have a good education, some might not know the right language, have a stable home, and that is something society needs to work at fixing, but that's not the reason Uber/Instacart can afford to pay little. It's because the type of work (unscheduled, be your own boss, no language skills necessary, no customer service skills, etc) is desirable compared to other jobs that have a large supply of labor.

Or just don't work for Instacart. The market will raise rates when they cannot find any runners for food.

by qudat 8y ago

Or just don't work for Instacart. The market will raise rates when they cannot find any runners for food.

djeikyb 8y ago

That's what a strike is! The workers stop until the bosses acknowledge market value.

pishpash 8y ago
I mean, that's temporary. Are you saying all workers will agree that only say 20% of them work at a time (rotating) to artificially create scarcity, raising price of labor, then redistribute income amongst themselves in a communal fashion? Because that's strictly worse.

EliRivers 8y ago

There will always be the hopelessly desperate just waiting to be taken advantage of. The market will not magically stop this happening. We must make the choice; maybe we'll choose to allow exploitation of the hopelessly desperate, maybe we won't, but praying to the market to magically fix it won't do a thing.

pishpash 8y ago
I think the government should step in with UBI, supplemental income, or some such, but it would be wrong to fix price of labor for one particular industry/market. The latter is just a hack.
lotsofpulp 8y ago
No, there won’t. Wages are rising for all levels of employees. Driving a vehicle without dealing with coworkers or a “boss” just happens to be something many, many people can do so as a supplier, you have tons of competition, therefore the prices you can charge are lower. Work towards a position that requires you to be differentiated from others and see your ability to charge more go up.
- EliRivers 8y ago
  Do you have any evidence that one day there will no longer be hopelessly desperate people? The evidence so far indicates otherwise. Where is your posited utopian future coming from? Wages are rising for all levels of employees. It's my understanding that the evidence indicates this isn't true (for example, https://globalriskinsights.com/2018/01/us-economy-workers-dilemma-declining-wages/ https://globalriskinsights.com/2018/01/us-economy-workers-di... , and many other such). What are you basing this assertion on? Work towards a position that requires you to be differentiated from others and see your ability to charge more go up. This is the standard trite, middle-class advice towards people who are hopelessly desperate and trapped in poverty. The hopelessly desperate cannot do this on their own. They don't have the time, the health, the regular hours, the safety blanket of cash, the lack of children, the support network, even the simple knowledge of how to gain skills, on and on - all the things people need to take your advice. They don't have that. That's what being hopelessly desperate is.
  - lotsofpulp 8y ago
    https://www.frbatlanta.org/chcs/wage-growth-tracker.aspx https://www.frbatlanta.org/chcs/wage-growth-tracker.aspx Wages are rising, at least nominally, of course. I know they the wage and wealth gap is increasing, and the top 10% are running away with almost all the spoils, and is not a good situation. However, the context of my response was to the person you had responded to had said that Instacart would have to pay more if people stopped running food for them, to which you had responded that Instacart wouldn't since there was an endless supply of hopelessly desperate people that Instacart can pull from. Getting from point A to point B, especially with the help of navigation software, is something everyone can do, hence the bottom of the barrel wages. You're competing with almost everyone. Expecting to earn more than the very minimum in that kind of market is unrealistic. Before, the bottom of the barrel jobs were retail/restaurant/hotel/service jobs, but now with Instacart and Uber and whatnot, those are the new bottom of the barrel jobs, and retail/restaurant/hotel/service jobs have had to raise their wages. I understand some people might not have a good education, some might not know the right language, have a stable home, and that is something society needs to work at fixing, but that's not the reason Uber/Instacart can afford to pay little. It's because the type of work (unscheduled, be your own boss, no language skills necessary, no customer service skills, etc) is desirable compared to other jobs that have a large supply of labor.