5 ms·

What exhausts me is the people, the politics, the engineering egos, and the endless tolerance of companies to spend months of time working through previously ob

What exhausts me is the people, the politics, the engineering egos, and the endless tolerance of companies to spend months of time working through previously obviously poor decisions and no tolerance for fixing the attitudes that created them. You’re called perfectionist engineer, regardless of how little effort or time it takes to correct the long term trajectory for your project. There’s little connection to clear organized thinking and the enjoyment of the work, it’s like everyone has gone mad and can’t see the obvious right in front of their face at times.

scruple 8y ago
Do we work for the same company? It's _infuriating_ to watch the same people make the same mistakes time and time again. Where is the accountability? Where has the integrity gone? Was it all a lie? What exactly is the _point_ of this charade?
- ravenstine 8y ago
  It's indeed a charade. Maybe it wasn't in the beginning, but it inevitably becomes a charade once a company reaches a certain age and size. What happens is that, once a company is reliably making money for everyone, the need to "innovate" and make things more "efficient" is dramatically reduced. At the end of the day, most people want to just show up to the office, do what they're told(what they don't actually want to do), and then go back to their lives with their money. If some young engineer shows up with ideas about making things "more efficient", that can only mean people's daily routines get disrupted or they are made obsolete. Nobody really wants to make things better, including those who are running the business since their joy is in being in charge of lots of people(whether they're well-meaning or not). Accountability and integrity gets thrown out the window because, in order to maintain them, someone has to get mad at someone else, and these days people aren't interested in being the person who has to scold people or let them go. As much as I care about my craft as a software engineer, I realize that every company suffers from this syndrome to some extent, and the most healthy thing to do is to accept that people don't want you fucking with their cash cow. I don't take seriously claims companies make when the talk about "excellence" and "innovation", because once they've got more than 10 employees and their growth pattern has a definite upward trend, those values really go out the window. And you know something? There's nothing wrong with that. Most people aren't working because they want to. Think you can make things better? Go start your own company.
  - org3432 8y ago
    > Think you can make things better? Go start your own company. I did actually, turns outs those same people show up and they damage the growing cash calf so to speak. :)
  - scruple 8y ago
    IMO, there's only nothing wrong with this behavior because it's so widespread as to be normalized and accepted. If people are content to be frauds, that's their prerogative, but it's making life for the other half a living hell. edit/ I should probably also make the point that, IME, there's 2 broad cohorts that I'm speaking generally about. Those cohorts are people who are capable but checked out, burnt out, etc... and the other are people who are not capable yet are never held accountable to that fact. I am railing against the second group, because they actively cause harm, again, IME.
  - mratzloff 8y ago
    Often these young engineers don't understand the whole context. They make poor assumptions and don't ask the right questions, and their obviously superior ideas, while well-intentioned, are not actually superior. They come across as arrogant. The problem is that no one takes them aside to explain any of this, so they become frustrated and eventually cynical. Correctly channeled and nurtured, these engineers can do a lot of good in an organization. That said, sometimes it is the organization itself. The key to understanding is identifying the right people to ask, and asking the right questions.
sixdimensional 8y ago
Here here!
therealdrag0 8y ago
I've been feeling this at my current gig. But I just gave notice today. Hopefully my next gig will be better. My other jobs were better, so there is hope.

scruple 8y ago

Do we work for the same company? It's _infuriating_ to watch the same people make the same mistakes time and time again. Where is the accountability? Where has the integrity gone? Was it all a lie? What exactly is the _point_ of this charade?

ravenstine 8y ago
It's indeed a charade. Maybe it wasn't in the beginning, but it inevitably becomes a charade once a company reaches a certain age and size. What happens is that, once a company is reliably making money for everyone, the need to "innovate" and make things more "efficient" is dramatically reduced. At the end of the day, most people want to just show up to the office, do what they're told(what they don't actually want to do), and then go back to their lives with their money. If some young engineer shows up with ideas about making things "more efficient", that can only mean people's daily routines get disrupted or they are made obsolete. Nobody really wants to make things better, including those who are running the business since their joy is in being in charge of lots of people(whether they're well-meaning or not). Accountability and integrity gets thrown out the window because, in order to maintain them, someone has to get mad at someone else, and these days people aren't interested in being the person who has to scold people or let them go. As much as I care about my craft as a software engineer, I realize that every company suffers from this syndrome to some extent, and the most healthy thing to do is to accept that people don't want you fucking with their cash cow. I don't take seriously claims companies make when the talk about "excellence" and "innovation", because once they've got more than 10 employees and their growth pattern has a definite upward trend, those values really go out the window. And you know something? There's nothing wrong with that. Most people aren't working because they want to. Think you can make things better? Go start your own company.
- org3432 8y ago
  > Think you can make things better? Go start your own company. I did actually, turns outs those same people show up and they damage the growing cash calf so to speak. :)
- scruple 8y ago
  IMO, there's only nothing wrong with this behavior because it's so widespread as to be normalized and accepted. If people are content to be frauds, that's their prerogative, but it's making life for the other half a living hell. edit/ I should probably also make the point that, IME, there's 2 broad cohorts that I'm speaking generally about. Those cohorts are people who are capable but checked out, burnt out, etc... and the other are people who are not capable yet are never held accountable to that fact. I am railing against the second group, because they actively cause harm, again, IME.
- mratzloff 8y ago
  Often these young engineers don't understand the whole context. They make poor assumptions and don't ask the right questions, and their obviously superior ideas, while well-intentioned, are not actually superior. They come across as arrogant. The problem is that no one takes them aside to explain any of this, so they become frustrated and eventually cynical. Correctly channeled and nurtured, these engineers can do a lot of good in an organization. That said, sometimes it is the organization itself. The key to understanding is identifying the right people to ask, and asking the right questions.

sixdimensional 8y ago

Here here!

therealdrag0 8y ago

I've been feeling this at my current gig. But I just gave notice today. Hopefully my next gig will be better. My other jobs were better, so there is hope.