7 ms·

The next video in the series casts serious doubt on that claim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2YYiig_s9w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2YYiig_s9w I will

The next video in the series casts serious doubt on that claim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2YYiig_s9w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2YYiig_s9w I will summarise the claims in the videos. • Many votes on amendments (not bathroom breaks) are done via quick visual inspection of the room, not electronic vote. It's possible to challenge the outcome and request an electronic vote instead: the video shows many examples of instances where this led to the vote result being inverted i.e. the visual inspection was wrong. In one case the chairman challenges the request for an electronic recount after an amendment was rejected by saying "Usually amendments from Mr Schaffhauser don't find the majority" followed by "good thing we checked ... amendment 247 has been accepted". • A convention has evolved whereby the chairman doing the visual inspection doesn't even look at the room, and only looks at the leaders of the main parties. The EP frequently assumes everyone will vote with their party leader so there's no point in even checking their actual votes at all. The video contains a clip of the chairman who counts the votes explaining to this MEP that he can clearly see the party leaders so what's the problem. • In some cases the chairman doesn't even look up from their papers before announcing the results, i.e. votes aren't counted at all. • Because amendment votes aren't actually being counted, they happen so fast translators can't reliably keep up with the process, such that sometimes by the time the translators have said what the vote is about voting has already closed. • This happens because the EU Parliament has no real power and the amendments are largely useless, so nobody takes the process seriously. Many people don't bother to raise their hands at all. There are nonetheless lots of votes and MEPs because it inflates the stats and makes the EU look more democratic. A clip is shown of an MEP saying "bear in mind we're in the middle of the world cup so shall we not call for a check". • Sessions are videoed but the cameras don't show the whole room so you can't actually check how many people voted. • There is a widespread attitude that none of this matters. I'm not very surprised by all this myself, because the biggest problem is not even mentioned in the video: the votes are shoddily done because they can't by themselves change the law. They can only do what the Commission lets them do. It's not a real parliament, it just calls itself that. Seems there's another video in native English that shows other (British) MEPs getting angry about the same problems https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FozR_eM_1U8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FozR_eM_1U8

walterbell 8y ago
Thanks, visitors to the EU should get a print copy of your comment.
trickstra 8y ago
And what makes you believe the next video in the series is not equally misleading? Many claims, but zero evidence. A lot of evidence on the contrary from other sources, such as the reports on the website of European Parliament. Or are you suggesting those are made up?
- repolfx 8y ago
  Why do you say zero evidence? Have you actually watched the videos? He provides video evidence from EP sessions backing up each of his many claims. Then the second video I cite shows more MEPs from different countries and parties complaining about the same problems. Also, we have the story actually being discussed in this thread, where numerous MEPs claim they accidentally voted wrong. So that's three sources. I'm not sure the website of the European Parliament should count as a source when discussing the problematic procedures of the European Parliament. That might tell you what the EP wants you to believe but surely direct observation via video is more compelling? After all, a major claim (supported by video clips) is that the EP routinely counts its own votes wrongly, so official reports on voting must be taken with a pinch of salt.
  - trickstra 8y ago
    Oh come on. His videos don't really show you the context, only very specific moments that he want's you to see. Only the special cases. How can you count that as relevant evidence, and then dismiss the official EP records as "what if they just want you to believe..."
    - repolfx 8y ago
      OK, you're implying at this point misleading editing, false claims and more. But in this thread we've presented three sources of MEPs saying this is a real problem, that back each other up. The onus is now on you to find rebuttals that undermine that testimony, which again, is convincing because it comes from the people who are actually working in this chamber. Now I haven't actually dismissed any evidence because you haven't presented any: it's totally unclear what reports you mean, or what they might say that voids the problems shown in the video. Please do cite specific reports that explain how this video evidence is wrong or falsified. For the avoidance of doubt, NO institution calling itself a Parliament should find itself in the situation where votes are being counted wrong, EVER. This should be obvious but the sole purpose of a Parliament is to vote: votes are their only output. Creating a situation where it's possible to vote wrong by accident, in any way at all, is a gross breach of basic competence and massively undermines their entire institution.

walterbell 8y ago

Thanks, visitors to the EU should get a print copy of your comment.

trickstra 8y ago

And what makes you believe the next video in the series is not equally misleading? Many claims, but zero evidence. A lot of evidence on the contrary from other sources, such as the reports on the website of European Parliament. Or are you suggesting those are made up?

repolfx 8y ago
Why do you say zero evidence? Have you actually watched the videos? He provides video evidence from EP sessions backing up each of his many claims. Then the second video I cite shows more MEPs from different countries and parties complaining about the same problems. Also, we have the story actually being discussed in this thread, where numerous MEPs claim they accidentally voted wrong. So that's three sources. I'm not sure the website of the European Parliament should count as a source when discussing the problematic procedures of the European Parliament. That might tell you what the EP wants you to believe but surely direct observation via video is more compelling? After all, a major claim (supported by video clips) is that the EP routinely counts its own votes wrongly, so official reports on voting must be taken with a pinch of salt.
- trickstra 8y ago
  Oh come on. His videos don't really show you the context, only very specific moments that he want's you to see. Only the special cases. How can you count that as relevant evidence, and then dismiss the official EP records as "what if they just want you to believe..."
  - repolfx 8y ago
    OK, you're implying at this point misleading editing, false claims and more. But in this thread we've presented three sources of MEPs saying this is a real problem, that back each other up. The onus is now on you to find rebuttals that undermine that testimony, which again, is convincing because it comes from the people who are actually working in this chamber. Now I haven't actually dismissed any evidence because you haven't presented any: it's totally unclear what reports you mean, or what they might say that voids the problems shown in the video. Please do cite specific reports that explain how this video evidence is wrong or falsified. For the avoidance of doubt, NO institution calling itself a Parliament should find itself in the situation where votes are being counted wrong, EVER. This should be obvious but the sole purpose of a Parliament is to vote: votes are their only output. Creating a situation where it's possible to vote wrong by accident, in any way at all, is a gross breach of basic competence and massively undermines their entire institution.