3 ms·

They got into smartphones business late, tried to copy Samsung, and now they are failing. What a surprise. What did they offer new on the market? Why would I ch

by mk89 8y ago

They got into smartphones business late, tried to copy Samsung, and now they are failing. What a surprise. What did they offer new on the market? Why would I choose a Sony instead of a Samsung? I personally did, just to test with my own experience, and I will not choose a Sony ever again.

jstimpfle 8y ago
I really like my Sony Z5 compact and while I never spent much time investigating I don't like Samsungs for some reason. For one, I have the impression that their colors look artificial. Also the battery life seems to be better on the Sonys. I see a parallel to Thinkpads in that I can imagine that Sonys have a little more appeal to some more technical crowds than e.g. Samsungs. And probably Sonys have less appeal than Samsungs for the average Smartphone user.
- jakub_g 8y ago
  Xperia Z* Compact is one of the last series of phones that are 4.3-4.6 inches and fit comfortably with one hand. All other vendors went all in into 5+ inches phones that are difficult to operate with one hand. Sony phones do not have all the newest fancy features, but I found the flagships to be reasonably powerful and just work™. I never liked Samsungs because they modify the default Android experience too much and ship too much crapware. Since ~Android 6 they are more aligned UI-wise, but the "back" button on the right, and the different middle button are also annoying. Last but not least, being an Android dev, Samsung is one of the most annoying vendors, which makes weird modifications to their fork of Android, which result in Samsung-only crashes. (Having said that, for majority of consumers, none of this is an issue, given the sales numbers.)
  - ashishb 8y ago
    I am surprised how rarely is the phone size issue mentioned. I, personally, would prefer 4.6" Android phone but impossible to get from the major vendors.
    - curlypaul924 8y ago
      AFAICT it's impossible to get from _any_ vendors now. The XZ3 compact doesn't exist, and the only other phone I know of that has a comparable screen size is the Nokia 1, which as a phone isn't comparable at all. There are also rugged devices like the Zebra TC75, but even though it has a 4.7" screen, the phone itself is large. Similarly, the Blackberry KEY2 has a 4.5" screen, but the keyboard adds quite a bit of bulk. Both phones are also pretty wide, which is a big factor in whether it fits in one hand. The Galaxy S10e is being touted as a brilliant compact phone, but it's the same size as an S7, and comes with a giant 5.8" screen. Today's "compact" phone is yesterday's "phablet". Then there are the clamshell smartphones. Surely there's a market for these. The only one sold in the US is the ZTE Cymbal-T, and it's carrier-locked. And while I'm ranting -- why hasn't anyone made a decent shoephone yet?
  - usrusr 8y ago
    Samsung are infuriating: the S9, after some update, is now running a sequence of two animations before finally showing the content of the app drawer. It would be bad enough if they were running concurrently (which would admittedly look somewhat slick), but no, you wait for one to finish, get your expectations up, but then there is the second animation just starting. I don't know wether it's stupidity or malice (timed to the release of the s10 to make the old model feel sufficiently slow?) and I've long come to refuse invoking Hanlon's Razor when it comes to Samsung.
    - lstodd 8y ago
      Boo Boo. Don't like it - root it, hack it. It this hacker news or what? In any case Android Q disables access to external storage, so it's either one submits to Apple-style walled garden or seeks something else. Where those vendorcrap apps aren't there or are removed without any problem. And if someone does submit to the Q changes, then there's no point to discuss.
- usrusr 8y ago
  Xperia Compact buyers seem to be the most loyal outside the Applesphere, but they are not frequent buyers and rarely willing to pay extra for the very latest increment. A difficult group to build a business on. In the bigger picture, I think that Sony never really managed to emancipate itself from the network provider sales channel. According to hearsay, the whole "new models twice a year, and a premium variant on top" madness was entirely driven by Japanese network providers. A network driven product portfolio has never worked out well for a phone brand, because the resulting multitude of models makes no sense to off-channel buyers. Which includes every international buyer outside the market reach of the "home" networks of the network-driven models. Motorola used to suffer from this as well.
  - Zak 8y ago
    The XZ2 Compact suggests Sony doesn't have any idea what people liked about previous compact models. It's larger in every dimension than the models leading up to it, and significantly thicker. Despite that, it loses the headphone jack and barely gains any battery capacity. What does it gain for all that? Screen resolution, mainly, going from 319 PPI to 483. I'd be hard pressed to care less about that change, as I'd need a VR headset or other magnification to notice.
    - sanitycheck 8y ago
      Agree 100%. When the XZ2C came out I bought a second XZ1C as a backup, it's was obvious where they're heading and I'm not going there. Hopefully the next time I need a new phone someone will make a compact device with a folding screen.
  - rangibaby 8y ago
    iPhone release was quite late in Japan because SJ told Japanese providers where to stick their dumb demands, which ended up being a huge coup for SoftBank
kryptiskt 8y ago
Got into smartphones late? Sony Ericsson P800 and P900 were released in 2002-2003. And their first Android phone was released back in 2010.
- mk89 8y ago
  And those are smartphones for you?
- kirse 8y ago
  I was all about the M600i. Imported that in white from Japan back then - a beautifully designed phone w/ rocker keys great for fast texting.
Daedren 8y ago
Compact phones with flagship specs. Oh wait they're done with those. And I'm still salty over the fact that the Pie update for the XZ1 Compact still doesn't have Night Light (Also no gesture navigation)

by mk89 8y ago

jstimpfle 8y ago

I really like my Sony Z5 compact and while I never spent much time investigating I don't like Samsungs for some reason. For one, I have the impression that their colors look artificial. Also the battery life seems to be better on the Sonys. I see a parallel to Thinkpads in that I can imagine that Sonys have a little more appeal to some more technical crowds than e.g. Samsungs. And probably Sonys have less appeal than Samsungs for the average Smartphone user.

jakub_g 8y ago
Xperia Z* Compact is one of the last series of phones that are 4.3-4.6 inches and fit comfortably with one hand. All other vendors went all in into 5+ inches phones that are difficult to operate with one hand. Sony phones do not have all the newest fancy features, but I found the flagships to be reasonably powerful and just work™. I never liked Samsungs because they modify the default Android experience too much and ship too much crapware. Since ~Android 6 they are more aligned UI-wise, but the "back" button on the right, and the different middle button are also annoying. Last but not least, being an Android dev, Samsung is one of the most annoying vendors, which makes weird modifications to their fork of Android, which result in Samsung-only crashes. (Having said that, for majority of consumers, none of this is an issue, given the sales numbers.)
- ashishb 8y ago
  I am surprised how rarely is the phone size issue mentioned. I, personally, would prefer 4.6" Android phone but impossible to get from the major vendors.
  - curlypaul924 8y ago
    AFAICT it's impossible to get from _any_ vendors now. The XZ3 compact doesn't exist, and the only other phone I know of that has a comparable screen size is the Nokia 1, which as a phone isn't comparable at all. There are also rugged devices like the Zebra TC75, but even though it has a 4.7" screen, the phone itself is large. Similarly, the Blackberry KEY2 has a 4.5" screen, but the keyboard adds quite a bit of bulk. Both phones are also pretty wide, which is a big factor in whether it fits in one hand. The Galaxy S10e is being touted as a brilliant compact phone, but it's the same size as an S7, and comes with a giant 5.8" screen. Today's "compact" phone is yesterday's "phablet". Then there are the clamshell smartphones. Surely there's a market for these. The only one sold in the US is the ZTE Cymbal-T, and it's carrier-locked. And while I'm ranting -- why hasn't anyone made a decent shoephone yet?
- usrusr 8y ago
  Samsung are infuriating: the S9, after some update, is now running a sequence of two animations before finally showing the content of the app drawer. It would be bad enough if they were running concurrently (which would admittedly look somewhat slick), but no, you wait for one to finish, get your expectations up, but then there is the second animation just starting. I don't know wether it's stupidity or malice (timed to the release of the s10 to make the old model feel sufficiently slow?) and I've long come to refuse invoking Hanlon's Razor when it comes to Samsung.
  - lstodd 8y ago
    Boo Boo. Don't like it - root it, hack it. It this hacker news or what? In any case Android Q disables access to external storage, so it's either one submits to Apple-style walled garden or seeks something else. Where those vendorcrap apps aren't there or are removed without any problem. And if someone does submit to the Q changes, then there's no point to discuss.
usrusr 8y ago
Xperia Compact buyers seem to be the most loyal outside the Applesphere, but they are not frequent buyers and rarely willing to pay extra for the very latest increment. A difficult group to build a business on. In the bigger picture, I think that Sony never really managed to emancipate itself from the network provider sales channel. According to hearsay, the whole "new models twice a year, and a premium variant on top" madness was entirely driven by Japanese network providers. A network driven product portfolio has never worked out well for a phone brand, because the resulting multitude of models makes no sense to off-channel buyers. Which includes every international buyer outside the market reach of the "home" networks of the network-driven models. Motorola used to suffer from this as well.
- Zak 8y ago
  The XZ2 Compact suggests Sony doesn't have any idea what people liked about previous compact models. It's larger in every dimension than the models leading up to it, and significantly thicker. Despite that, it loses the headphone jack and barely gains any battery capacity. What does it gain for all that? Screen resolution, mainly, going from 319 PPI to 483. I'd be hard pressed to care less about that change, as I'd need a VR headset or other magnification to notice.
  - sanitycheck 8y ago
    Agree 100%. When the XZ2C came out I bought a second XZ1C as a backup, it's was obvious where they're heading and I'm not going there. Hopefully the next time I need a new phone someone will make a compact device with a folding screen.
- rangibaby 8y ago
  iPhone release was quite late in Japan because SJ told Japanese providers where to stick their dumb demands, which ended up being a huge coup for SoftBank

kryptiskt 8y ago

Got into smartphones late? Sony Ericsson P800 and P900 were released in 2002-2003. And their first Android phone was released back in 2010.

mk89 8y ago
And those are smartphones for you?
kirse 8y ago
I was all about the M600i. Imported that in white from Japan back then - a beautifully designed phone w/ rocker keys great for fast texting.

Daedren 8y ago

Compact phones with flagship specs. Oh wait they're done with those. And I'm still salty over the fact that the Pie update for the XZ1 Compact still doesn't have Night Light (Also no gesture navigation)