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I've been experiencing a type of burnout for the past 7 years that is mostly mental in nature. I get plenty of exercise and while my sleep schedule is abnormal,

I've been experiencing a type of burnout for the past 7 years that is mostly mental in nature. I get plenty of exercise and while my sleep schedule is abnormal, I still get normal amounts of sleep. Where the burnout comes in is when I get back the motivation to learn and program, and everything is going good, but then I start talking to recruiters and applying to jobs, and the farthest I get is the phone interview. I haven't been able to land a technical interview for the past 5 years about. Then it turns into a feedback loop, where my lack of motivation comes back, I let my skills wane, and then I just burnout for a few months. Each time I try to get back at it, the wall to climb seems higher; like I seriously struggle to just sit down and read an article about this or that topic. It's also difficult to know where to jump back in to brush up on my skills. My ability to think programmatically is still solid, but I forget things like the specifics of setting up webpack or whatever. shrug oh well. I think I've been getting that motivational tingle back, so maybe this time will be successful? In the mean time I just want to be hired for anything; not even getting calls back from minimum wage job applications.

lixtra 8y ago
Did you try doing charity work in your community? It gives your day some structure and it might connect you to people that are willing to employ you.
Emma_Goldman 8y ago
Sounds difficult. Have you ever asked for feedback? Good luck.
ironix 8y ago
Try playing a longer game. Pick your favorite tech and join a local group for it, and meet every time they do. Instead of the discomfort of the phone interview, you'll need to tackle the discomfort of connecting with others -- but just realize everyone's human like you, and ultimately wants to connect just as much as you do. Learn about them, look for common ground. Let them get to know you. Don't connect with a certain person? That's expected -- keep trying. Come up with a notable side-project next time you are inspired -- but make sure it won't take longer than 1-2wks of effort. It can be a gimmick, so long as it is somewhat notable. A trivial CRUD app, but applied to a novel/fun/interesting domain. You could even look for non-profits needing a tech solution. You want to appeal to someone hiring for a jr position, and who wants to see initiative. Good consultants -- and even FTE career-oriented devs -- tend to have their work lined up via their network. A network is as simple as casually keeping in contact with old coworkers and then pinging them when you're looking for a new opportunity. In your case, it would just be connecting with other tech folk. Open your surface area to opportunity. This is how you end up knowing about job positions not even posted yet, and end up with inside knowledge on tech that can get you into a job much easier. Look at 1099 contracting. It's low-risk to the employer because you're easier to drop if it doesn't work out. It pays a bit better for you, in return for that risk. If you're out and looking, you can find opportunities to contract that will never be posted to job boards, because a lead engineer just wants to bring someone on quickly. The biggest risk to people pulling 1099 contractors is that contractor ghosting on them, especially when they work remote -- make one of your big selling points be communication. This strategy -- networking -- is one that is critical to pick up not just for landing a jr/intermediate job, but for keeping career longevity in an ageism-tinted industry. It'll be a pain in the ass, but surely better than taking minimum-wage. I think networking-motivated individuals who are still early on the dev journey can do very well.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
pmoriarty 8y ago
Have you considered changing careers to something more fulfilling, something you're excited about and actually want to do?
mtrimpe 8y ago
Sounds like you have what I call associative burnout. It’s basically when your association with an activity becomes so negative that you no longer have the willpower to push yourself to perform the activity. Your brain has basically puts work in the same category as holding your hand against a hot stove. I was lucky to have my associations limited to certain employers and role descriptions but it was everything as real as the physical burnout I developed later on in life. And as far as tips for recovery; the only thing I can think of is to learn to respect the association and stop trying to fight it with willpower. Just stay within the zone You do have motivation for/that does feel good and let it lead you wherever it needs to. That might end up leading you to a different career but in my case it led me back to basically the same career but with a bunch of ‘red flag’ activities and behaviors (mine and others’) which mean I need to get the hell out of my current job.
bitL 8y ago
Reduce exercise; that alone could deplete your "stress-alleviating well". Obviously, you (unconsciously) see your work as pointless and it probably is; many jobs these days are just useless busywork, even at top companies, even with dubious moral background. Market might also force you to unlearn better ways to program, e.g. if you are forced to switch to JavaScript from a better language, so motivation can get a hit from that as well. You might also notice that most of jobs you can apply to or are contacted by recruiters for are jobs nobody wants to do and for meaningful jobs it's all about networking, reducing motivation to bother to minimum. The only way I see is to study new things on your own and do your own stuff if you find something you like; to survive try to get some part-time/remote work until you can reap fruits of your labor later. By all means avoid people that are putting you down; they do it so that they could dominate you and feel better about themselves. Start practicing some forgotten virtues, that would make you unique and stand out.
isoprophlex 8y ago
did you talk to a professional? a psychologist, or an employment counsellor? a personal trainer? I'm sure you can find some kind of professional that's trained to help people in your predicament?
- Tempest1981 8y ago
  Some schools provide kids with 3 free sessions with a counselor. I wish tech companies did the same... that it was just a "normal" thing for our mental health. We focus much more on physical health, whereas mental health is taboo.
sixdimensional 8y ago
Phone interviews and going through "the front door" of most companies is a soul-crushing experience, in my opinion, most of the time. Don't let the reality of just how difficult going about getting a job that way can be, override your sense of confidence in yourself. I have the same feeling, often. People like you and I need to remind each other, when we feel this way, that it is just hard to go that way. If I had some real paying work to give you I'd do it in a heartbeat. Your HN name is RandomInteger4 on HN. That says enough for me. Let me tell you a story... I was working for a startup over 10 years ago. We started in the back of the owner's house, a glass-enclosed greenhouse (no kidding) that got up to 90+ degrees during the summer, and housed our servers and ourselves. It was a crazy experience - the stories I could tell. I went through a divorce, while working there, stress, burnout and eventually fell out of the place (it was a bad experience), when they sold the company for a huge amount (tens of millions), and I pretty much got nothing out of it compared to what I put in (other than a lot of experience). I learned a lot but it took a huge amount out of me. I was depressed. I went through a long period of depression and aimlessness. A previous boss I had worked for, as an intern, who was kind of a family friend, just told me, "come and do some stuff for me". He gave me a chance, didn't have crazy expectations for me, paid me enough to get by, and I was very lucky - I worked hard and did as much as I could, because I was grateful. It helped me get over the state I was in, and back into the workforce and groove. It sounds to me like you just need somebody to give you that. I would do it. Can anybody on HN help? I'm starting to believe that one of my life's goals might be to find a way to help people like you (and once me). You just need to find a space, in which to do some work, without crazy expectations, make some money, make some new connections and get things going again. Sometimes it's just finding the right person or connection to talk to, which implies some degree of social interactions. I wish you all the best. You will make it through this. Hang in there and if you can, perhaps you will also get lucky and find that opportunity to just get back into it. I really wish for you that you will. I hope this helps, or somebody else reads this and helps you.

lixtra 8y ago

Did you try doing charity work in your community? It gives your day some structure and it might connect you to people that are willing to employ you.

Emma_Goldman 8y ago

Sounds difficult. Have you ever asked for feedback? Good luck.

ironix 8y ago

Try playing a longer game. Pick your favorite tech and join a local group for it, and meet every time they do. Instead of the discomfort of the phone interview, you'll need to tackle the discomfort of connecting with others -- but just realize everyone's human like you, and ultimately wants to connect just as much as you do. Learn about them, look for common ground. Let them get to know you. Don't connect with a certain person? That's expected -- keep trying. Come up with a notable side-project next time you are inspired -- but make sure it won't take longer than 1-2wks of effort. It can be a gimmick, so long as it is somewhat notable. A trivial CRUD app, but applied to a novel/fun/interesting domain. You could even look for non-profits needing a tech solution. You want to appeal to someone hiring for a jr position, and who wants to see initiative. Good consultants -- and even FTE career-oriented devs -- tend to have their work lined up via their network. A network is as simple as casually keeping in contact with old coworkers and then pinging them when you're looking for a new opportunity. In your case, it would just be connecting with other tech folk. Open your surface area to opportunity. This is how you end up knowing about job positions not even posted yet, and end up with inside knowledge on tech that can get you into a job much easier. Look at 1099 contracting. It's low-risk to the employer because you're easier to drop if it doesn't work out. It pays a bit better for you, in return for that risk. If you're out and looking, you can find opportunities to contract that will never be posted to job boards, because a lead engineer just wants to bring someone on quickly. The biggest risk to people pulling 1099 contractors is that contractor ghosting on them, especially when they work remote -- make one of your big selling points be communication. This strategy -- networking -- is one that is critical to pick up not just for landing a jr/intermediate job, but for keeping career longevity in an ageism-tinted industry. It'll be a pain in the ass, but surely better than taking minimum-wage. I think networking-motivated individuals who are still early on the dev journey can do very well.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

pmoriarty 8y ago

Have you considered changing careers to something more fulfilling, something you're excited about and actually want to do?

mtrimpe 8y ago

Sounds like you have what I call associative burnout. It’s basically when your association with an activity becomes so negative that you no longer have the willpower to push yourself to perform the activity. Your brain has basically puts work in the same category as holding your hand against a hot stove. I was lucky to have my associations limited to certain employers and role descriptions but it was everything as real as the physical burnout I developed later on in life. And as far as tips for recovery; the only thing I can think of is to learn to respect the association and stop trying to fight it with willpower. Just stay within the zone You do have motivation for/that does feel good and let it lead you wherever it needs to. That might end up leading you to a different career but in my case it led me back to basically the same career but with a bunch of ‘red flag’ activities and behaviors (mine and others’) which mean I need to get the hell out of my current job.

bitL 8y ago

Reduce exercise; that alone could deplete your "stress-alleviating well". Obviously, you (unconsciously) see your work as pointless and it probably is; many jobs these days are just useless busywork, even at top companies, even with dubious moral background. Market might also force you to unlearn better ways to program, e.g. if you are forced to switch to JavaScript from a better language, so motivation can get a hit from that as well. You might also notice that most of jobs you can apply to or are contacted by recruiters for are jobs nobody wants to do and for meaningful jobs it's all about networking, reducing motivation to bother to minimum. The only way I see is to study new things on your own and do your own stuff if you find something you like; to survive try to get some part-time/remote work until you can reap fruits of your labor later. By all means avoid people that are putting you down; they do it so that they could dominate you and feel better about themselves. Start practicing some forgotten virtues, that would make you unique and stand out.

isoprophlex 8y ago

did you talk to a professional? a psychologist, or an employment counsellor? a personal trainer? I'm sure you can find some kind of professional that's trained to help people in your predicament?

Tempest1981 8y ago
Some schools provide kids with 3 free sessions with a counselor. I wish tech companies did the same... that it was just a "normal" thing for our mental health. We focus much more on physical health, whereas mental health is taboo.

sixdimensional 8y ago

Phone interviews and going through "the front door" of most companies is a soul-crushing experience, in my opinion, most of the time. Don't let the reality of just how difficult going about getting a job that way can be, override your sense of confidence in yourself. I have the same feeling, often. People like you and I need to remind each other, when we feel this way, that it is just hard to go that way. If I had some real paying work to give you I'd do it in a heartbeat. Your HN name is RandomInteger4 on HN. That says enough for me. Let me tell you a story... I was working for a startup over 10 years ago. We started in the back of the owner's house, a glass-enclosed greenhouse (no kidding) that got up to 90+ degrees during the summer, and housed our servers and ourselves. It was a crazy experience - the stories I could tell. I went through a divorce, while working there, stress, burnout and eventually fell out of the place (it was a bad experience), when they sold the company for a huge amount (tens of millions), and I pretty much got nothing out of it compared to what I put in (other than a lot of experience). I learned a lot but it took a huge amount out of me. I was depressed. I went through a long period of depression and aimlessness. A previous boss I had worked for, as an intern, who was kind of a family friend, just told me, "come and do some stuff for me". He gave me a chance, didn't have crazy expectations for me, paid me enough to get by, and I was very lucky - I worked hard and did as much as I could, because I was grateful. It helped me get over the state I was in, and back into the workforce and groove. It sounds to me like you just need somebody to give you that. I would do it. Can anybody on HN help? I'm starting to believe that one of my life's goals might be to find a way to help people like you (and once me). You just need to find a space, in which to do some work, without crazy expectations, make some money, make some new connections and get things going again. Sometimes it's just finding the right person or connection to talk to, which implies some degree of social interactions. I wish you all the best. You will make it through this. Hang in there and if you can, perhaps you will also get lucky and find that opportunity to just get back into it. I really wish for you that you will. I hope this helps, or somebody else reads this and helps you.