5 ms·

I support the general idea of not having to work 12 hours a day for 6 days. That's crazy. But there are other venues for labour activism than changing the licen

by est31 8y ago

I support the general idea of not having to work 12 hours a day for 6 days. That's crazy. But there are other venues for labour activism than changing the license. And in other Chinese industries that aren't related to software at all, labour activism is quite successful as well. So there is no need to resort to license changes. As for your PS, there is no indication that it's a protest and not just a license.

seba_dos1 8y ago
Uhm... of course there is? https://github.com/996icu/996.ICU https://github.com/996icu/996.ICU https://996.icu/#/en_US https://996.icu/#/en_US Even on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19507620 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19507620 The link just shows you one particular file in the repo, but that should be obvious to anyone who ever used GitHub.
- est31 8y ago
  From the github page: > The purpose of this license is to prevent 996-style companies from using the software or codes under the license, and force those companies to balance their work schedule. Doesn't sound like protest to me, but like extortion. Either you do what we want, or you can't use our software.
  - efnx 8y ago
    That’s not extortion. If you don’t like the terms don’t use the software.
    - est31 8y ago
      Well then what I-Iuw said above in the PS is bullocks. > (P.S. This is a protest, not a legally binding license) It is a legally binding license and not just mere protest. That's all I claimed.
      - seba_dos1 8y ago
        Yeah, that was poorly worded. It's still a protest though, and that license is simply a one way to protest.
  - seba_dos1 8y ago
    > Either you do what we want, or you can't use our software. So... just like any other license?
  - majewsky 8y ago
    Congratulations, you understand copyright law (or rather, immaterial property law in general).
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    Offering a benefit (software license) you have the rights to and are under no obligation to give in exchange for something you want (adopting certain labor practices) isn't extortion, it's just selling. Not everything is sold for money.
rqs 8y ago
> But there are other venues for labour activism than changing the license The thing is, this kind of online protest is the safest for both initiators and participants. If by "other venues for labour activism" you mean go to the street, you're basically risk sending people to jail (And after the thing, nobody want to risk to get milled down by tanks). Also, did you know that 996 is by law illegal in China? You can technically report your company if they force you to work 996. But: 1) After that, you will probably get fired for any number of excuses. 2) Your company is clever, they know many ways to get around the law. Now, after all that dilemma, how could you protected yourself and help other developers just like you? The license idea come out naturally.
- est31 8y ago
  > The thing is, this kind of online protest is the safest for both initiators and participants. If by "other venues for labour activism" you mean go to the street, you're basically risk sending people to jail (And after the thing, nobody want to risk to get milled down by tanks). Why will the government avoid to use repressive measures against this? Otherwise they don't do their job of totalitarian government well enough. In a totalitarian state, I'd certainly be afraid to support this. > Also, did you know that 996 is by law illegal in China? You can technically report your company if they force you to work 996. But: 1) After that, you will probably get fired for any number of excuses. 2) Your company is clever, they know many ways to get around the law. Yeah, I've read the website. So technically, the license isn't needed. > how to you protected yourself and help other developers just like you? The license idea come out naturally. If you can't get the law enforced, how will you be able to enforce the license? I've heard that chinese courts generally don't meet western standards.
  - rqs 8y ago
    > Why will the government avoid to use repressive measures against this? This is how the labor law been structured in China. In many cases you need to file the case by yourself in order to get it investigated. > So technically, the license isn't needed. > If you can't get the law enforced, how will you be able to enforce the license I don't think you've understood the situation. In China, we play it safe. You can get administration involved, but you will likely need to file the case by yourself, which may cause you to get fired. Now, if a third-party can help you by putting some pressure on your company, then both of you will be safe. The license adds another reason to convince your boss to not implement 996.
pessimizer 8y ago
> there are other venues for labour activism than changing the license. This argument would work just as well for all of these other venues. That there's something else you could be doing is not a valid argument against doing the thing that you are doing. "Why strike when you could change software licenses?"

by est31 8y ago

seba_dos1 8y ago

Uhm... of course there is? https://github.com/996icu/996.ICU https://github.com/996icu/996.ICU https://996.icu/#/en_US https://996.icu/#/en_US Even on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19507620 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19507620 The link just shows you one particular file in the repo, but that should be obvious to anyone who ever used GitHub.

est31 8y ago
From the github page: > The purpose of this license is to prevent 996-style companies from using the software or codes under the license, and force those companies to balance their work schedule. Doesn't sound like protest to me, but like extortion. Either you do what we want, or you can't use our software.
- efnx 8y ago
  That’s not extortion. If you don’t like the terms don’t use the software.
  - est31 8y ago
    Well then what I-Iuw said above in the PS is bullocks. > (P.S. This is a protest, not a legally binding license) It is a legally binding license and not just mere protest. That's all I claimed.
    - seba_dos1 8y ago
      Yeah, that was poorly worded. It's still a protest though, and that license is simply a one way to protest.
- seba_dos1 8y ago
  > Either you do what we want, or you can't use our software. So... just like any other license?
- majewsky 8y ago
  Congratulations, you understand copyright law (or rather, immaterial property law in general).
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  Offering a benefit (software license) you have the rights to and are under no obligation to give in exchange for something you want (adopting certain labor practices) isn't extortion, it's just selling. Not everything is sold for money.

rqs 8y ago

> But there are other venues for labour activism than changing the license The thing is, this kind of online protest is the safest for both initiators and participants. If by "other venues for labour activism" you mean go to the street, you're basically risk sending people to jail (And after the thing, nobody want to risk to get milled down by tanks). Also, did you know that 996 is by law illegal in China? You can technically report your company if they force you to work 996. But: 1) After that, you will probably get fired for any number of excuses. 2) Your company is clever, they know many ways to get around the law. Now, after all that dilemma, how could you protected yourself and help other developers just like you? The license idea come out naturally.

est31 8y ago
> The thing is, this kind of online protest is the safest for both initiators and participants. If by "other venues for labour activism" you mean go to the street, you're basically risk sending people to jail (And after the thing, nobody want to risk to get milled down by tanks). Why will the government avoid to use repressive measures against this? Otherwise they don't do their job of totalitarian government well enough. In a totalitarian state, I'd certainly be afraid to support this. > Also, did you know that 996 is by law illegal in China? You can technically report your company if they force you to work 996. But: 1) After that, you will probably get fired for any number of excuses. 2) Your company is clever, they know many ways to get around the law. Yeah, I've read the website. So technically, the license isn't needed. > how to you protected yourself and help other developers just like you? The license idea come out naturally. If you can't get the law enforced, how will you be able to enforce the license? I've heard that chinese courts generally don't meet western standards.
- rqs 8y ago
  > Why will the government avoid to use repressive measures against this? This is how the labor law been structured in China. In many cases you need to file the case by yourself in order to get it investigated. > So technically, the license isn't needed. > If you can't get the law enforced, how will you be able to enforce the license I don't think you've understood the situation. In China, we play it safe. You can get administration involved, but you will likely need to file the case by yourself, which may cause you to get fired. Now, if a third-party can help you by putting some pressure on your company, then both of you will be safe. The license adds another reason to convince your boss to not implement 996.

pessimizer 8y ago

> there are other venues for labour activism than changing the license. This argument would work just as well for all of these other venues. That there's something else you could be doing is not a valid argument against doing the thing that you are doing. "Why strike when you could change software licenses?"