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You write: "nobody lays on their deathbed wishing they would have spent _less_ time with their family" I keep seeing this idea repeated time after time, yet I

You write: "nobody lays on their deathbed wishing they would have spent _less_ time with their family" I keep seeing this idea repeated time after time, yet I've never seen any formal study of this issue. I know this idea has been asserted by some people with very large followings. Stephen Covey, in his book "The 7 Habits Of Highly Effective People" asserts nearly the identical sentiment that you've expressed here. All I can say is, from what I've seen, this is just one of those things that varies a great deal from one family to another, and from one person to another. I know that both my mother and my father keenly felt the strain of having children, and both of them wished they'd had more time and money to advance their careers. My dad was lucky enough to be successful as a commercial photographer, but increasingly after he turned 50 he wondered why he never broke through to the top ranks of photography. He made good money but he never became famous. He thought, not unreasonably, that if he had less demands from his family, then he might have more money and energy to reach the top ranks of his field. When he was in his 70s he made several attempts to get into the top galleries in New York City, but he only had one small success in that regard. He died of cancer at the age of 79. Since I stayed with him every day during the last month of his life, I can tell you without a doubt that when he was on his deathbed he did wish that he had had more time for his career - a tradeoff that could only have been purchased by him spending less time with his family. From what I can see, my dad is hardly an isolated case. When I talk to my friends, and to people older than myself, what I hear, again and again, is disappointment. Many people, perhaps most people, feel that they have somehow failed to live up to their true potential. At least among my friends, most feel that having kids has imposed a heavy sacrifice on them. I can not think of a single one of my friends who hasn't thought, at some point, that they might be much more successful if they did not have kids. More than that, not everyone is happy with their family life. If you suggest that family life is always rewarding, in a country where 45% of all marriages end in divorce (I'm using the USA as an example here) then you are simply in denial of reality. I think this is an issue that at least deserves a frank, honest discussion, especially on a forum like Hacker News, where we all expect honesty regarding the tradeoffs of the entrepreneurial life. This is not the right place for sentimental nonsense about the joyous wonders of family. This is a place for bluntness and honesty. Your attitude about "buy enough downvotes to make this comment disappear forever" is really worrisome.

haploid 16y ago
I'd like to buy enough upvotes to make this comment appear forever. This is a fantastic post. I have found that at moments with friends and family when the happy platitudes are stripped away, whether through drunkenness, circumstance, or just plain frank discussion - this is the sentiment that often shows itself. Kudos and thank you for this, lkrubner.
dasil003 16y ago
This is much better than your original comment which was muddied by a grand pronouncement about kids and startups. In this comment you acknowledge individual differences, and you take some conventional wisdom to task. In the former comment you jump up on a soap box and proclaim what people with kids should do. So first off, as a #1 employee in a startup that had a baby right during the early stage, I'm living proof of the fallacy of your judgement. I pull off the work-life balance thing pretty well (stay-at-home mom helps a lot), and my effectiveness at work is not diminished. The fact is that commitments at home give me an ongoing sense of urgency that keeps my overall productivity up without inducing burnout the way 18-hour days do. And in any case, the variance between individuals is far greater than the variance between hours worked. You'd be a fool to hire lesser talent just because they're willing to work 80 hours a week. More to the point about this last comment, you're absolutely right to think about future regrets. Having a family is a big sacrifice, and it will not necessarily make you happy. On the other hand, slaving away at startups, even if you find financial success may not make you happy either. Today's media culture (of which silicon valley porn is a significant part these days) programs our ego with all kinds of beliefs about happiness: if I'm rich I'll be happy, if I'm famous I'll be happy, if my talent is recognized I'll be happy, but the belief doesn't make them true. The sad truth may be that nothing will make you happy, and you are destined to be miserable, or vice-versa. It may be that the greatest accomplishments require a certain discontent, and in fact you care more about the accomplishment than the happiness. It's a mess that you have to sort out for yourself. Anyone preaching how others should live their life is invested in a particular belief system that may or may not apply to you. When you are making these kinds of decisions I think deep soul searching is the only way to go. I wouldn't place too much stock in other people's regrets, because there's no way you can sort out the baggage underlying someone's stated beliefs to really get a read on how it might apply to you. Instead your only recourse is to go with your gut. This is the ultimate gift and curse of living in a free society.

haploid 16y ago

I'd like to buy enough upvotes to make this comment appear forever. This is a fantastic post. I have found that at moments with friends and family when the happy platitudes are stripped away, whether through drunkenness, circumstance, or just plain frank discussion - this is the sentiment that often shows itself. Kudos and thank you for this, lkrubner.

dasil003 16y ago

This is much better than your original comment which was muddied by a grand pronouncement about kids and startups. In this comment you acknowledge individual differences, and you take some conventional wisdom to task. In the former comment you jump up on a soap box and proclaim what people with kids should do. So first off, as a #1 employee in a startup that had a baby right during the early stage, I'm living proof of the fallacy of your judgement. I pull off the work-life balance thing pretty well (stay-at-home mom helps a lot), and my effectiveness at work is not diminished. The fact is that commitments at home give me an ongoing sense of urgency that keeps my overall productivity up without inducing burnout the way 18-hour days do. And in any case, the variance between individuals is far greater than the variance between hours worked. You'd be a fool to hire lesser talent just because they're willing to work 80 hours a week. More to the point about this last comment, you're absolutely right to think about future regrets. Having a family is a big sacrifice, and it will not necessarily make you happy. On the other hand, slaving away at startups, even if you find financial success may not make you happy either. Today's media culture (of which silicon valley porn is a significant part these days) programs our ego with all kinds of beliefs about happiness: if I'm rich I'll be happy, if I'm famous I'll be happy, if my talent is recognized I'll be happy, but the belief doesn't make them true. The sad truth may be that nothing will make you happy, and you are destined to be miserable, or vice-versa. It may be that the greatest accomplishments require a certain discontent, and in fact you care more about the accomplishment than the happiness. It's a mess that you have to sort out for yourself. Anyone preaching how others should live their life is invested in a particular belief system that may or may not apply to you. When you are making these kinds of decisions I think deep soul searching is the only way to go. I wouldn't place too much stock in other people's regrets, because there's no way you can sort out the baggage underlying someone's stated beliefs to really get a read on how it might apply to you. Instead your only recourse is to go with your gut. This is the ultimate gift and curse of living in a free society.