7 ms·

Don’t worry, Paul Graham, Australians aren’t all stupid

34 points by nreece 16y ago

hartror 16y ago
Probably not Renai's best bit of writing . . but the point is made. As it was by quite a number of us on the original post. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1948436 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1948436
- aymeric 16y ago
  Agreed, I feel he didn't present his arguments clearly.
  - thret 16y ago
    Hookers and blackjack tho.
olalonde 16y ago
Why get so defensive? PG was merely stating a fact.
- jacques_chester 16y ago
  Why is it that 90% of the stories we hear involving Australia and technology are about stupid moves by the government? Is there something unique about Australia? This can be read as implying that Australians at-large are responsible. This isn't really true, it's an anomaly of our voting system (proportional representation in the Senate on a per-state basis) that sometimes leads to bad policy. So, for example, the retarded-policy bandwagon got rolling when Senator Harradine from Tasmania held the balance of power. He was able to block bills in the Senate and he used that power to get a lot of what he wanted, including bulk pork for Tasmania and some stupid internet policies. In the current Senate one of the cross-benchers (who can sometimes affect the outcome of votes, depending on what the Greens and other cross-benchers do) is Senator Fielding, a member of a speaking-in-tongues, happy-clappy christian party. One of their pet peeves is pornography, they think it makes god most displeased. Hence the government has been dangling the filtering stuff for years to help secure his vote. Technology-wise the current big argument is about a "National Broadband Network" a AU$50 billion (or $35 billion, depending on how you count) project to tear up Australia's copper network and replace it with fibre. To every home in the country. In US terms that's approximately like a $630 billion project (ie ~4.3% of GDP).
  - hartror 16y ago
    ... tear up Australia's copper network and replace it with fibre. To every home in the country. In US terms that's approximately like a $630 billion project. This deserves front billing. It will make us the envy of the western world when it comes to IT infrastructure and will hopefully drive a lot of innovation. We are doing this at a time when the rest of the world bar China (and thanks to China) is dealing with a crippling budget problem. It isn't controversial so it doesn't hit the front page of (and I don't say this to be inflammatory) American centric sites/blogs/media. There are many sexy IT stories that appear in local media all the time, but don't get covered simply because of where the mainstream blogs focus themselves. I have read similar complaints from non-silicon valley types.
    - jacques_chester 16y ago
      > It isn't controversial so it doesn't hit the front page of (and I don't say this to be inflammatory) American centric sites/blogs/media It is highly controversial. I run a blog network including the "Terrible Trio" of Ozblog politics -- http://catallaxyfiles.com/ http://catallaxyfiles.com/, http://clubtroppo.com.au/ http://clubtroppo.com.au/ and http://larvatusprodeo.net/ http://larvatusprodeo.net/ -- and they spend a lot of time arguing the pros and cons. The posters on Larvatus Prodeo are generally bullish on the NBN, the posters on Catallaxy Files are quite anti-NBN. While I personally don't think that there can be any sensible technical argument made about the supremacy of FTTH for performance, the technical argument is not the key issue. It's about the cost-benefit tradeoffs, which aren't being seriously explored. Remember, this is the single largest infrastructure project in Australian history -- bigger in adjusted dollars than the Snowy Mountains Scheme -- it deserves some serious scrutiny on principle.
      - robryan 16y ago
        Yeah the real question is if this will deliver enough benefit to justify the costs, it's mostly sold to the public as improving medical services and businesses in rural areas. To look at it from the point of view of Melbourne though, if willing to pay for it we can already get 100mpbs net, something I'm sure will be available to everyone who can get cable currently before the NBN is done. It's worrying that they are avoiding releasing any type of business plan or cost benefit analysis. Also it was strange that the plan was out for a long time before they mentioned anything about the fact that the network would be able to deliver far more than 100mbps over time to the home. Makes me think many in the government didn't really understand what they are actually rolling out.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
ra 16y ago
Renai has a habit of writing link bait like this. He made no friends with this one: http://delimiter.com.au/2010/07/15/how-long-can-atlassian-stay-australian/#comment-12555 http://delimiter.com.au/2010/07/15/how-long-can-atlassian-st... (link to comment from Mike Cannon-Brooks, Atlassian cofounder)
wyclif 16y ago
What Australian startups are hiring American developers, and taking care of the work visa?
- pufuwozu 16y ago
  Atlassian will help with getting a visa - might be a stretch to still call it a startup, though.
invisible 16y ago
You might want to fix your link concerning Startmate: http://delimiter.com.au/2010/11/29/dont-worry-paul-graham-australians-arent-all-stupid/news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1616586 http://delimiter.com.au/2010/11/29/dont-worry-paul-graham-au... (news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1616586) should be http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1616586 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1616586
rodh257 16y ago
Poorly written article, but the main point is that some of the comments made over the last few days were a bit rough, and misinformed. We had a government with a huge majority plan to install a mandatory internet filter and everyone met it with huge opposition, it was quite clearly voted against in a number of areas, and as such the parliament is setup so that it is impossible for them to pass it.The reason that you had seen articles on the internet filter is because Australians were outraged by it all. Not only that, but we're pushing ahead with a national fiber network, which will provide brilliant opportunities for startups, 100 mbit or higher to the majority of citizens is the goal. Pretty impressive for a country with such a spread out population. I'm not saying our government isn't dumb, but aren't they all? What I'm saying (and I guess what the author of this horrible article is saying) is that Australia isn't a black hole for technical innovation, and it would be unwise to ignore the opportunities that can arise from having fast internet across the nation - especially given we are doing it in rural areas as well, plenty of opportunities for startups in e-health, agriculture and mining.

34 points by nreece 16y ago

Probably not Renai's best bit of writing . . but the point is made. As it was by quite a number of us on the original post. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1948436 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1948436

aymeric 16y ago
Agreed, I feel he didn't present his arguments clearly.
- thret 16y ago
  Hookers and blackjack tho.

olalonde 16y ago

Why get so defensive? PG was merely stating a fact.

jacques_chester 16y ago
Why is it that 90% of the stories we hear involving Australia and technology are about stupid moves by the government? Is there something unique about Australia? This can be read as implying that Australians at-large are responsible. This isn't really true, it's an anomaly of our voting system (proportional representation in the Senate on a per-state basis) that sometimes leads to bad policy. So, for example, the retarded-policy bandwagon got rolling when Senator Harradine from Tasmania held the balance of power. He was able to block bills in the Senate and he used that power to get a lot of what he wanted, including bulk pork for Tasmania and some stupid internet policies. In the current Senate one of the cross-benchers (who can sometimes affect the outcome of votes, depending on what the Greens and other cross-benchers do) is Senator Fielding, a member of a speaking-in-tongues, happy-clappy christian party. One of their pet peeves is pornography, they think it makes god most displeased. Hence the government has been dangling the filtering stuff for years to help secure his vote. Technology-wise the current big argument is about a "National Broadband Network" a AU$50 billion (or $35 billion, depending on how you count) project to tear up Australia's copper network and replace it with fibre. To every home in the country. In US terms that's approximately like a $630 billion project (ie ~4.3% of GDP).
- hartror 16y ago
  ... tear up Australia's copper network and replace it with fibre. To every home in the country. In US terms that's approximately like a $630 billion project. This deserves front billing. It will make us the envy of the western world when it comes to IT infrastructure and will hopefully drive a lot of innovation. We are doing this at a time when the rest of the world bar China (and thanks to China) is dealing with a crippling budget problem. It isn't controversial so it doesn't hit the front page of (and I don't say this to be inflammatory) American centric sites/blogs/media. There are many sexy IT stories that appear in local media all the time, but don't get covered simply because of where the mainstream blogs focus themselves. I have read similar complaints from non-silicon valley types.
  - jacques_chester 16y ago
    > It isn't controversial so it doesn't hit the front page of (and I don't say this to be inflammatory) American centric sites/blogs/media It is highly controversial. I run a blog network including the "Terrible Trio" of Ozblog politics -- http://catallaxyfiles.com/ http://catallaxyfiles.com/, http://clubtroppo.com.au/ http://clubtroppo.com.au/ and http://larvatusprodeo.net/ http://larvatusprodeo.net/ -- and they spend a lot of time arguing the pros and cons. The posters on Larvatus Prodeo are generally bullish on the NBN, the posters on Catallaxy Files are quite anti-NBN. While I personally don't think that there can be any sensible technical argument made about the supremacy of FTTH for performance, the technical argument is not the key issue. It's about the cost-benefit tradeoffs, which aren't being seriously explored. Remember, this is the single largest infrastructure project in Australian history -- bigger in adjusted dollars than the Snowy Mountains Scheme -- it deserves some serious scrutiny on principle.
    - robryan 16y ago
      Yeah the real question is if this will deliver enough benefit to justify the costs, it's mostly sold to the public as improving medical services and businesses in rural areas. To look at it from the point of view of Melbourne though, if willing to pay for it we can already get 100mpbs net, something I'm sure will be available to everyone who can get cable currently before the NBN is done. It's worrying that they are avoiding releasing any type of business plan or cost benefit analysis. Also it was strange that the plan was out for a long time before they mentioned anything about the fact that the network would be able to deliver far more than 100mbps over time to the home. Makes me think many in the government didn't really understand what they are actually rolling out.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

ra 16y ago

Renai has a habit of writing link bait like this. He made no friends with this one: http://delimiter.com.au/2010/07/15/how-long-can-atlassian-stay-australian/#comment-12555 http://delimiter.com.au/2010/07/15/how-long-can-atlassian-st... (link to comment from Mike Cannon-Brooks, Atlassian cofounder)

wyclif 16y ago

What Australian startups are hiring American developers, and taking care of the work visa?

pufuwozu 16y ago
Atlassian will help with getting a visa - might be a stretch to still call it a startup, though.

invisible 16y ago

You might want to fix your link concerning Startmate: http://delimiter.com.au/2010/11/29/dont-worry-paul-graham-australians-arent-all-stupid/news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1616586 http://delimiter.com.au/2010/11/29/dont-worry-paul-graham-au... (news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1616586) should be http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1616586 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1616586

rodh257 16y ago

Poorly written article, but the main point is that some of the comments made over the last few days were a bit rough, and misinformed. We had a government with a huge majority plan to install a mandatory internet filter and everyone met it with huge opposition, it was quite clearly voted against in a number of areas, and as such the parliament is setup so that it is impossible for them to pass it.The reason that you had seen articles on the internet filter is because Australians were outraged by it all. Not only that, but we're pushing ahead with a national fiber network, which will provide brilliant opportunities for startups, 100 mbit or higher to the majority of citizens is the goal. Pretty impressive for a country with such a spread out population. I'm not saying our government isn't dumb, but aren't they all? What I'm saying (and I guess what the author of this horrible article is saying) is that Australia isn't a black hole for technical innovation, and it would be unwise to ignore the opportunities that can arise from having fast internet across the nation - especially given we are doing it in rural areas as well, plenty of opportunities for startups in e-health, agriculture and mining.