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Appalled by Sexism in the Valley? Meet the Tech Bros of Finland

8 points by NelsonMinar 8y ago

skilled 8y ago
I am not sure how I feel about this article and how seriously I want to take it. As of right now, the author is painting a bleak picture of one side only. It reads like a petty kid overheard something vulgar over the counter and now wants to write a book about it. If the author can redo the piece without pointing fingers and playing a victim then I would reconsider reading it again.
0815test 8y ago
Wow, this totally explains why Torvalds has taken care to become so polite lately, almost to excess. We used to just blame the usual sort of SV-driven "woke" politics, but really-- who would ever want to be mistaken for one of those guys? The stuff that's reported in this article is surprisingly damning, not even due to the sexism itself but the extent to which ego-driven behavior seems to be supplanting any sort of real professionalism among that group.
- DATACOMMANDER 8y ago
  “Damning”. LOL. You’re hopeless.
  - sctb 8y ago
    If you keep breaking the guidelines we'll ban the account. Could you please review them? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - DATACOMMANDER 8y ago
      I’ll keep my comments substantive. That being said, anyone who reads my comment history will conclude that if you were to ban me, it would be your loss, not mine. So do what you will.
HarryHirsch 8y ago
Conference events centered around drinking and gambling, and when I pointed out that women may feel uncomfortable there, the conference organizers shrugged. This is Finland, where the party culture is different. What did Finnish women say? Altogether, it's an American woman imposing her viewpoint on a culture that isn't hers. Cultural imperialism at its finest. I wish I wasn't serious.
numair 8y ago
In case people read this as some outsider with sour grapes, Caterina (the author) founded Flickr with her now-ex, Stewart, who is the founder of Slack. So whatever she’s exposed to when visiting Finland is the VIP tech star version of how women are treated.
DATACOMMANDER 8y ago
Who the fuck cares? Seriously, Silicon Valley is one big echo chamber at this point. On average, men make better engineers than women do, and are more interested in engineering to boot. And if a bunch of guys want to make things while trading guy jokes, you should really just leave them alone. Do liberals realize how sick most people—even those in the center and only a bit right of center—are of their new-age, anti-reality, puritanical bullshit? Oh, that’s right, they are, they just don’t care: that’s why at least half of their publications have disabled comments.
- danpalmer 8y ago
  Men do not make better engineers or show more interest in engineering when biases in education and culture are controlled for.
  - tseabra 8y ago
    I'm interested to learn more about this. Can you point to some sources?
    - danpalmer 8y ago
      There were numerous deconstructions of the sexist manifesto from a (now-ex) Google engineer who made similar claims. I recommend those as a good starting point. I also think that claims such as "men make better engineers" need to be proven, and I've yet to read any evidence that suggests this is the case.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - DATACOMMANDER 8y ago
        So, I’d heard of the manifesto, but I’d never read it. I just read it, and it seems perfectly reasonable to me. Given that some of the smartest left-leaning individuals in the world—Google employees—apparently read and rejected what is clearly nothing more than a measured call for common sense, I have to wonder if there’s any point to debating you folks online. We—intelligent right-leaning and left-leaning individuals, respectively—appear to have simply parted ways. If you want to link to a “deconstruction” of the manifesto, I’ll read it, but I’m not expecting much. I’ve already read well-designed studies that show the author’s assertions to be correct. I’m not sure how these alleged “deconstructions” get around such studies, but if I had to guess, I’d say sophistry, probably. But I’ll read one, and give it a chance.

8 points by NelsonMinar 8y ago

I am not sure how I feel about this article and how seriously I want to take it. As of right now, the author is painting a bleak picture of one side only. It reads like a petty kid overheard something vulgar over the counter and now wants to write a book about it. If the author can redo the piece without pointing fingers and playing a victim then I would reconsider reading it again.

0815test 8y ago

Wow, this totally explains why Torvalds has taken care to become so polite lately, almost to excess. We used to just blame the usual sort of SV-driven "woke" politics, but really-- who would ever want to be mistaken for one of those guys? The stuff that's reported in this article is surprisingly damning, not even due to the sexism itself but the extent to which ego-driven behavior seems to be supplanting any sort of real professionalism among that group.

DATACOMMANDER 8y ago
“Damning”. LOL. You’re hopeless.
- sctb 8y ago
  If you keep breaking the guidelines we'll ban the account. Could you please review them? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - DATACOMMANDER 8y ago
    I’ll keep my comments substantive. That being said, anyone who reads my comment history will conclude that if you were to ban me, it would be your loss, not mine. So do what you will.

HarryHirsch 8y ago

Conference events centered around drinking and gambling, and when I pointed out that women may feel uncomfortable there, the conference organizers shrugged. This is Finland, where the party culture is different. What did Finnish women say? Altogether, it's an American woman imposing her viewpoint on a culture that isn't hers. Cultural imperialism at its finest. I wish I wasn't serious.

numair 8y ago

In case people read this as some outsider with sour grapes, Caterina (the author) founded Flickr with her now-ex, Stewart, who is the founder of Slack. So whatever she’s exposed to when visiting Finland is the VIP tech star version of how women are treated.

DATACOMMANDER 8y ago

Who the fuck cares? Seriously, Silicon Valley is one big echo chamber at this point. On average, men make better engineers than women do, and are more interested in engineering to boot. And if a bunch of guys want to make things while trading guy jokes, you should really just leave them alone. Do liberals realize how sick most people—even those in the center and only a bit right of center—are of their new-age, anti-reality, puritanical bullshit? Oh, that’s right, they are, they just don’t care: that’s why at least half of their publications have disabled comments.

danpalmer 8y ago
Men do not make better engineers or show more interest in engineering when biases in education and culture are controlled for.
- tseabra 8y ago
  I'm interested to learn more about this. Can you point to some sources?
  - danpalmer 8y ago
    There were numerous deconstructions of the sexist manifesto from a (now-ex) Google engineer who made similar claims. I recommend those as a good starting point. I also think that claims such as "men make better engineers" need to be proven, and I've yet to read any evidence that suggests this is the case.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - DATACOMMANDER 8y ago
      So, I’d heard of the manifesto, but I’d never read it. I just read it, and it seems perfectly reasonable to me. Given that some of the smartest left-leaning individuals in the world—Google employees—apparently read and rejected what is clearly nothing more than a measured call for common sense, I have to wonder if there’s any point to debating you folks online. We—intelligent right-leaning and left-leaning individuals, respectively—appear to have simply parted ways. If you want to link to a “deconstruction” of the manifesto, I’ll read it, but I’m not expecting much. I’ve already read well-designed studies that show the author’s assertions to be correct. I’m not sure how these alleged “deconstructions” get around such studies, but if I had to guess, I’d say sophistry, probably. But I’ll read one, and give it a chance.