4 ms·

Not sure how serious they think this is, and how much is this rather a joke. If it's not a joke, they clearly not see the big picture. For example if you can wr

Not sure how serious they think this is, and how much is this rather a joke. If it's not a joke, they clearly not see the big picture. For example if you can write a software in a higher level language in a fraction of the time which will spare energy somewhere else in the world, it will use less electricity overall.

nydel 8y ago
i suppose every attempt to figure out which is the best text editor, unix-like os, programming language etc is even more futile than most human endeavor :)
basementcat 8y ago
It depends. If you're writing a math kernel that will be deployed to a billion IoT devices each with a lifetime of 10 years, you may want to spend some more developer time to shave a few cycles in assembly language. If you're writing some single-use script to automate a single job, do it in the easiest high level language with the library support that you need.
- howiroll 8y ago
  For battery powered devices, I suppose, but for plugged in applicants No.
dahart 8y ago
How does less dev time save energy “somewhere else in the world”? Google & AWS pay money to develop & acquire technologies that save energy because of their scale. The energy used in dev is scratch compared to the energy used to run programs at scale. Google, for example, has a PHP compiler that makes all PHP web pages execute in a fraction of the energy usage of running the PHP interpreter.
- quickthrower2 8y ago
  Not everyone works for FAANG. Energy usage doesn’t even come up at most small shops. Cloud hosting costs might, but only if they are really out of whack.
  - dahart 8y ago
    You might be misunderstanding. AWS and Google and a few others are hosting everyone’s code, all the big shops and all the small shops and everyone in between. They do things to optimize everybody’s code, because it saves literally millions on their power bills.
    - quickthrower2 8y ago
      Yes I can see that. As a small shop developer, I will make my choice of language based on programmer convenience rather than energy usage. I have never heard any developer talk about "kilowatts" when choosing tech (outside of bitcoin mining perhaps).
      - dahart 8y ago
        So I hear your point but don’t understand why you think it’s arguing against the need for this article? What’s wrong with drawing attention to something you and your peers weren’t thinking about, or doing something to help inform people’s choices? Perhaps awareness and concrete data of energy usage has to come first? Yes, the article is pointing out something that all the developers you talk to might not know. Doesn’t that make it a good thing? Maybe in the near future you will hear them start to talk about energy. Maybe now that you’re becoming aware, you can be the first among the people you know to talk about the energy usage of your software choices. Anecdotally, my own experience is that I didn’t hear a lot or think a lot about energy usage until I switched from games & web development to working at a hardware company. My peers now do talk about energy, even though most only write software. You’re right that most people do choose based on convenience, especially when they lack any other reasons to make the choice. Historically, choosing solely on convenience has contributed to global environmental problems, and people globally are only just becoming aware of the environmental costs of their choices. Separately, Moore’s law only just recently stopped working, so it’s not surprising to me that energy usage has suddenly become more important. Reducing energy use is now one of the primary ways we can increase speed & efficiency, unlike the recent past.
- akhilcacharya 8y ago
  ...Google has a PHP compiler? Don't you mean Hack/HHVM by FB?
  - dahart 8y ago
    Nope, I don’t mean HHVM. I was thinking of Talaria. I don’t know if they still use it. http://enswmu.blogspot.com/2013/03/why-google-acquired-talaria-efficency.html http://enswmu.blogspot.com/2013/03/why-google-acquired-talar... But HipHop is certainly another good example that demonstrates that this matters in practice.

nydel 8y ago

i suppose every attempt to figure out which is the best text editor, unix-like os, programming language etc is even more futile than most human endeavor :)

basementcat 8y ago

It depends. If you're writing a math kernel that will be deployed to a billion IoT devices each with a lifetime of 10 years, you may want to spend some more developer time to shave a few cycles in assembly language. If you're writing some single-use script to automate a single job, do it in the easiest high level language with the library support that you need.

howiroll 8y ago
For battery powered devices, I suppose, but for plugged in applicants No.

dahart 8y ago

How does less dev time save energy “somewhere else in the world”? Google & AWS pay money to develop & acquire technologies that save energy because of their scale. The energy used in dev is scratch compared to the energy used to run programs at scale. Google, for example, has a PHP compiler that makes all PHP web pages execute in a fraction of the energy usage of running the PHP interpreter.

quickthrower2 8y ago
Not everyone works for FAANG. Energy usage doesn’t even come up at most small shops. Cloud hosting costs might, but only if they are really out of whack.
- dahart 8y ago
  You might be misunderstanding. AWS and Google and a few others are hosting everyone’s code, all the big shops and all the small shops and everyone in between. They do things to optimize everybody’s code, because it saves literally millions on their power bills.
  - quickthrower2 8y ago
    Yes I can see that. As a small shop developer, I will make my choice of language based on programmer convenience rather than energy usage. I have never heard any developer talk about "kilowatts" when choosing tech (outside of bitcoin mining perhaps).
    - dahart 8y ago
      So I hear your point but don’t understand why you think it’s arguing against the need for this article? What’s wrong with drawing attention to something you and your peers weren’t thinking about, or doing something to help inform people’s choices? Perhaps awareness and concrete data of energy usage has to come first? Yes, the article is pointing out something that all the developers you talk to might not know. Doesn’t that make it a good thing? Maybe in the near future you will hear them start to talk about energy. Maybe now that you’re becoming aware, you can be the first among the people you know to talk about the energy usage of your software choices. Anecdotally, my own experience is that I didn’t hear a lot or think a lot about energy usage until I switched from games & web development to working at a hardware company. My peers now do talk about energy, even though most only write software. You’re right that most people do choose based on convenience, especially when they lack any other reasons to make the choice. Historically, choosing solely on convenience has contributed to global environmental problems, and people globally are only just becoming aware of the environmental costs of their choices. Separately, Moore’s law only just recently stopped working, so it’s not surprising to me that energy usage has suddenly become more important. Reducing energy use is now one of the primary ways we can increase speed & efficiency, unlike the recent past.
akhilcacharya 8y ago
...Google has a PHP compiler? Don't you mean Hack/HHVM by FB?
- dahart 8y ago
  Nope, I don’t mean HHVM. I was thinking of Talaria. I don’t know if they still use it. http://enswmu.blogspot.com/2013/03/why-google-acquired-talaria-efficency.html http://enswmu.blogspot.com/2013/03/why-google-acquired-talar... But HipHop is certainly another good example that demonstrates that this matters in practice.