4 ms·

This is an interesting graph - the proportion of men aged 18-30 who were celibate for the past year doubled in the past decade: https://www.washingtonpost.com/r

This is an interesting graph - the proportion of men aged 18-30 who were celibate for the past year doubled in the past decade: https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/Qalq8rTTOBvGnlWtfAt_RiXagMo=/480x0/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/4C7SSBIXSNFCLOJIGCWUOKDYTY.png https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/Qalq8rTTOBvGnlWtfAt_R... My first thought is that the “incel” crowd will grab on to this, and I wonder if they have a point. My next immediate thought is to wonder if the online social networks that have risen catering to that group might actually be the causative factor - men who feel unable to attract a partner instead find some level of companionship in these groups, creating a self-reinforcing cycle. I suspect the answer is a bit of both, though. Tech has likely had a profound impact on the dating scene for this generation, and it likely is more difficult for less attractive men to find companionship. For the purposes of disclosure, I’m a 36-year-old male who met his wife at 14 and married her at 21. My experiences are atypical for my generation, and I feel like I see these issues from an external perspective.

threatofrain 8y ago
There are roughly as many men per women per age cohort, no? That implies that some people are just too restrictive in their attractions.
- watwut 8y ago
  And some other people are not suitable as partners. As in, there are people dating who is profoundly bad idea. And then there are people who are not in position to have partner, because they work long hours and/or lack privacy. In particular, 80 hours a week working dude in startup with nearly males only employees has zero chance to find a girl, altrough he may be nice and cool dude. Through, I noticed gender difference in how people talk and think about it all too.
- manfredo 8y ago
  Alternatively, it could mean sexual encounters are becoming more concentrated among a smaller portion of men while people's attractions remain exactly the same. This article goes into some detail about this: https://quillette.com/2019/03/12/attraction-inequality-and-the-dating-economy/ https://quillette.com/2019/03/12/attraction-inequality-and-t...
  - xiphias2 8y ago
    The data on the chart with sexual division supports this: women are still actively having sex
- captainredbeard 8y ago
  Unattractive men aren’t entitled to anything, sorry. I don’t think the numbers mean people are too restrictive. Honestly, I’m surprised it’s not more polarized.
  - dictum 8y ago
    Disclaimers: I have no sympathy for the plight of the incel community, and anyone who even jokingly desires forced/unwanted relationships or rape deserves way worse than just ostracism. Still, I take issue with how the word entitlement weaves itself into such debates. What is due is due — how much a certain group yearns for it, or doesn't, is a distraction from whether the group should be granted its desire. It comes with an awful implication, which incels weaponize, that men who are having sex constantly are okay, possibly because they don't feel entitled to it. This raises nonchalance to a virtue. It simply convinces incels they should become more like the misogynists (like them) who, unlike them, are getting laid. It makes them want to have the eyes of a successful rapist [0] Nobody is entitled to anything. What few human rights we have were established through social consensus — sometimes as a concession to prevent wider unrest. Sex isn't a human right (though the choice to have it consensually is), mental health is. [0]: https://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Wyndham_Lewis#Quotes_about_Wyndham_Lewis https://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Wyndham_Lewis#Quotes_about_W...
    - 0815test 8y ago
      Sex is not a human right, but a reasonable pursuit of sex, relationships, marriage etc. very much is. Entitlement has no legitimate place in such a pursuit, simply because it incredibly counterproductive. There's a very real dynamic where being nonchalant about these things makes you more likely to be successful at them, and we shouldn't be dismissing it so quickly.
      - krapp 8y ago
        >Entitlement has no legitimate place in such a pursuit, simply because it incredibly counterproductive. Entitlement has no place in such a pursuit because entitlement implies a right of ownership, but a human being is not an abstract concept like "liberty" or "happiness" or an inanimate object like a plot of land that lacks agency or can be owned by another person. No one, regardless of gender, stats or status, is entitled to anything in regards to a relationship with other people. Certainly not to sex.
rasz 8y ago
>online social networks sure, social networks run by MindGeek

threatofrain 8y ago

There are roughly as many men per women per age cohort, no? That implies that some people are just too restrictive in their attractions.

watwut 8y ago
And some other people are not suitable as partners. As in, there are people dating who is profoundly bad idea. And then there are people who are not in position to have partner, because they work long hours and/or lack privacy. In particular, 80 hours a week working dude in startup with nearly males only employees has zero chance to find a girl, altrough he may be nice and cool dude. Through, I noticed gender difference in how people talk and think about it all too.
manfredo 8y ago
Alternatively, it could mean sexual encounters are becoming more concentrated among a smaller portion of men while people's attractions remain exactly the same. This article goes into some detail about this: https://quillette.com/2019/03/12/attraction-inequality-and-the-dating-economy/ https://quillette.com/2019/03/12/attraction-inequality-and-t...
- xiphias2 8y ago
  The data on the chart with sexual division supports this: women are still actively having sex
captainredbeard 8y ago
Unattractive men aren’t entitled to anything, sorry. I don’t think the numbers mean people are too restrictive. Honestly, I’m surprised it’s not more polarized.
- dictum 8y ago
  Disclaimers: I have no sympathy for the plight of the incel community, and anyone who even jokingly desires forced/unwanted relationships or rape deserves way worse than just ostracism. Still, I take issue with how the word entitlement weaves itself into such debates. What is due is due — how much a certain group yearns for it, or doesn't, is a distraction from whether the group should be granted its desire. It comes with an awful implication, which incels weaponize, that men who are having sex constantly are okay, possibly because they don't feel entitled to it. This raises nonchalance to a virtue. It simply convinces incels they should become more like the misogynists (like them) who, unlike them, are getting laid. It makes them want to have the eyes of a successful rapist [0] Nobody is entitled to anything. What few human rights we have were established through social consensus — sometimes as a concession to prevent wider unrest. Sex isn't a human right (though the choice to have it consensually is), mental health is. [0]: https://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Wyndham_Lewis#Quotes_about_Wyndham_Lewis https://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Wyndham_Lewis#Quotes_about_W...
  - 0815test 8y ago
    Sex is not a human right, but a reasonable pursuit of sex, relationships, marriage etc. very much is. Entitlement has no legitimate place in such a pursuit, simply because it incredibly counterproductive. There's a very real dynamic where being nonchalant about these things makes you more likely to be successful at them, and we shouldn't be dismissing it so quickly.
    - krapp 8y ago
      >Entitlement has no legitimate place in such a pursuit, simply because it incredibly counterproductive. Entitlement has no place in such a pursuit because entitlement implies a right of ownership, but a human being is not an abstract concept like "liberty" or "happiness" or an inanimate object like a plot of land that lacks agency or can be owned by another person. No one, regardless of gender, stats or status, is entitled to anything in regards to a relationship with other people. Certainly not to sex.

rasz 8y ago

>online social networks sure, social networks run by MindGeek