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Apple's management has enacted a policy of not offering competitive compensation for top engineering talent. I've had multiple Apple managers express frustratio

Apple's management has enacted a policy of not offering competitive compensation for top engineering talent. I've had multiple Apple managers express frustration with the company's inability to attract and retain top talent. I myself got an offer from Apple for less than half what three other top companies offered, and Apple was unwilling to negotiate. This product cancellation and Apple's general product quality decline is the inevitable result of this short-sighted, penny-wise, pound-foolish strategy to keep payroll down.

ldrndll 8y ago
For a company like Apple who a) tries to differentiate on engineering and b) has ridiculous amounts of money this is an entirely unforgivable policy.
ForrestN 8y ago
Source beyond your own experience? Would love to read more about the fact that Apple is offering people 40% and refusing to negotiate. That would be huge news.
- spectramax 8y ago
  Yep, need source. www.levels.fyi and Glassdoor shows comparable compensation.
robertAngst 8y ago
What self respecting Nerd would work for Apple? serious question
cageface 8y ago
Across the board Apple just seems to be struggling to execute on software. What they do offer is incomplete and buggy and they're falling farther and farther behind on new features. If they're serious about pivoting to being a services company they need to fix this ASAP. There's a deep-seated arrogance at Apple that I think they inherited from Jobs that isn't serving them well now that their competition has gotten its act together. Just as a thought experiment ask yourself - of the apps you use daily on your iPhone, how many are made by Apple, other than Safari?
- eanzenberg 8y ago
  Pretty much all of them? On my home screen, music, maps, calendar, photos, camera, wallet, news, reminder, phone, messages, mail and safari. Work fairly great too :). Seems they know what they’re doing by the massive profits they bring in.
- graeme 8y ago
  Safari, music, notes, reminders, mail, health, activity (apple watch), breathe (apple watch), calendar, shortcuts (acquisition), messages, maps, clock, calculator, weather, I use all of those regularly and they work well. I also use 3rd party apps for some of the same categories. I use maps for routing, but google maps for search and points of interest
pentae 8y ago
Tims a miser, which is great for supply chain management but when it filters down into the hiring and the end product, well we're already beginning to see the results of that in the sales numbers.
blihp 8y ago
I'm not sure that this is anything new. Apple has been known for decades as a company unwilling to pay top dollar but rather count on their mystique / sense of mission to attract talent. However, with the mystique fading and no longer having a go-go stock price to make options/RSUs as attractive, that strategy is probably not working nearly as well as it used to.
- bredren 8y ago
  Where’s the evidence of this talent drain creating great products elsewhere? I believe this is possible but am genuinely curious.
  - blihp 8y ago
    Who said that they were necessarily creating great products elsewhere? I only argued that they were likely going elsewhere. What happens when they get there is a function of management/environment/etc. Most companies don't offer a sense of mission or mystique to their people, but strangely many are willing to settle for stacks of money instead.
  - m_mueller 8y ago
    Lately it seems to be happening elsewhere entirely, at least on hardware front. See for example Huawei's foldable. Google and Microsoft will gladly solve their software problems, what they are mainly missing is their own distribution channels overseas. I think it we are now caught up to Japan in ~1970s, soon it will probably be time of dominance like ~1980s.

ldrndll 8y ago

For a company like Apple who a) tries to differentiate on engineering and b) has ridiculous amounts of money this is an entirely unforgivable policy.

ForrestN 8y ago

Source beyond your own experience? Would love to read more about the fact that Apple is offering people 40% and refusing to negotiate. That would be huge news.

spectramax 8y ago
Yep, need source. www.levels.fyi and Glassdoor shows comparable compensation.

robertAngst 8y ago

What self respecting Nerd would work for Apple? serious question

cageface 8y ago

Across the board Apple just seems to be struggling to execute on software. What they do offer is incomplete and buggy and they're falling farther and farther behind on new features. If they're serious about pivoting to being a services company they need to fix this ASAP. There's a deep-seated arrogance at Apple that I think they inherited from Jobs that isn't serving them well now that their competition has gotten its act together. Just as a thought experiment ask yourself - of the apps you use daily on your iPhone, how many are made by Apple, other than Safari?

eanzenberg 8y ago
Pretty much all of them? On my home screen, music, maps, calendar, photos, camera, wallet, news, reminder, phone, messages, mail and safari. Work fairly great too :). Seems they know what they’re doing by the massive profits they bring in.
graeme 8y ago
Safari, music, notes, reminders, mail, health, activity (apple watch), breathe (apple watch), calendar, shortcuts (acquisition), messages, maps, clock, calculator, weather, I use all of those regularly and they work well. I also use 3rd party apps for some of the same categories. I use maps for routing, but google maps for search and points of interest

pentae 8y ago

Tims a miser, which is great for supply chain management but when it filters down into the hiring and the end product, well we're already beginning to see the results of that in the sales numbers.

blihp 8y ago

I'm not sure that this is anything new. Apple has been known for decades as a company unwilling to pay top dollar but rather count on their mystique / sense of mission to attract talent. However, with the mystique fading and no longer having a go-go stock price to make options/RSUs as attractive, that strategy is probably not working nearly as well as it used to.

bredren 8y ago
Where’s the evidence of this talent drain creating great products elsewhere? I believe this is possible but am genuinely curious.
- blihp 8y ago
  Who said that they were necessarily creating great products elsewhere? I only argued that they were likely going elsewhere. What happens when they get there is a function of management/environment/etc. Most companies don't offer a sense of mission or mystique to their people, but strangely many are willing to settle for stacks of money instead.
- m_mueller 8y ago
  Lately it seems to be happening elsewhere entirely, at least on hardware front. See for example Huawei's foldable. Google and Microsoft will gladly solve their software problems, what they are mainly missing is their own distribution channels overseas. I think it we are now caught up to Japan in ~1970s, soon it will probably be time of dominance like ~1980s.