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The officers were acting under the impression the man they saw was an unhinged person who just shot their own father. In this case if you saw them reaching for

The officers were acting under the impression the man they saw was an unhinged person who just shot their own father. In this case if you saw them reaching for what could possibly be a firearm many people would likely react in a similar manner. Our survival instincts are incredibly strong.

sixothree 8y ago
They were wrong and caused the death of an innocent person. And to answer your question, I do believe I have more regard for human life than these people. Reaching for something unknown is not a reason to kill anyone. They had multiple guns trained on him ready to shoot at the sight of a threat, which did not exist.
guessmyname 8y ago
> The officers were acting under the impression the man they saw was an unhinged person who just shot their own father. In this case if you saw them reaching for what could possibly be a firearm many people would likely react in a similar manner. Our survival instincts are incredibly strong. Wow! That’s scary, I thought SWAT was trained to assess the situation to be able to react accordingly. Now I’m afraid to visit the US in fear that the police will kill me just because I look suspicious. I didn’t know they were so afraid to the point of firing their guns in fear of being hurt.
- maccio92 8y ago
  Did you not read the context of the article? The "swatter" called the police and told them he had killed "his" father and was armed and dangerous. They were showing up to the scene with that context... It's not remotely the same as you being a random visitor in the country. Don't be ridiculous.
  - smileysteve 8y ago
    > It's not remotely the same as you being a random visitor Only if op stays in a residence (AirBnb, vrbo, friend's house) that could be confused with somebody playing a video game. > Don't be ridiculous. Unless some other person who may or may not even be in the country (U.S. caller id authentication and e911 systems are lacking) can provide a fiction that would wind up with the poster in the middle. That the police trust a system with such flaws to an extent that they are willing to kill for it is troublesome. Importantly, the man killed was not the intended target; The swatter effectively pressed pandora's button. In a non swatting situation, this happened to a family staying in Georgia. An informant fingered a house for a drug dealer, and the police shot a flash-bang through the AirBnb's window right into a baby's crib, causing severe burns and other health concerns. https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/attorney-child-hurt-swat-raid-looks-us-attorney-in/137264875 https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/attorney-child-hurt-swat-ra...
- dang 8y ago
  Please don't troll here or take threads further into flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - guessmyname 8y ago
    Thank you Dang, I’ve read the Hacker News Guidelines multiple times in all these years I’ve been visiting this website. As a non-native English speaker, I’m not sure what exactly in my comment above is considered “trolling” or “flamewar”. I’m legitimately scared that if I visit the US I will be a target and SWAT will not be careful enough to assess the situation, and instead will decide to kill me based on false information. You have commented —many times— that repetitive comments like this in the website will get a user’s account banned, so from now on I will be extra careful with my comments as to not offend someone that may end up affecting my presence in the community. Thank you for the advice.
    - dang 8y ago
      Moderation is pattern-matching. Your comments, to my reading, matched the style of a particular kind of ultra-sincere-sounding concern troll. If I got that wrong, that was a bad guess and I'm very sorry. In case it helps, I took a quick look and your other recent comments seem fine.
ameister14 8y ago
The problem is that violations of the Rules of Engagement in combat are treated more strictly than police killing innocent people. That's a pretty low bar in civilian life, and so shouldn't be the case.
scarface74 8y ago
Cops are suppose to be better trained. He signed up to put his life in danger. The innocent civilian didn’t.
- BenjiWiebe 8y ago
  Aren't cops trained that their own safety is number one? Or am i making things up?
  - drdeca 8y ago
    From what I've heard, I think that they are. I also don't think they should be.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    Yes the whole “I’d rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6”.
  - soraminazuki 8y ago
    I was under the impression that the number one duty of the police is to protect its citizens. I may have been proven wrong, as you suggest.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      It is their duty, but as a minority, I’m really hesitant about trusting police. It’s to a point where if I had to call police to my house if it was broken into, I would let them know in advance that my I’m Black since I live in a mostly White neighborhood and I wouldn’t want them coming in guns blazing thinking that I’m breaking into my own house. EDIT: This was just posted on HN https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/mar/29/willie-mccoy-police-shooting-video-vallejo https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/mar/29/willie-mccoy...
    - thelasthuman 8y ago
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columb...
nickfromseattle 8y ago
The officer was 20m away behind a squad car, shining blindingly bright lights while having a rifle pointed at the suspect. The risk of officer being shot is relatively low. Could have waited until he confirmed he saw a weapon.

sixothree 8y ago

They were wrong and caused the death of an innocent person. And to answer your question, I do believe I have more regard for human life than these people. Reaching for something unknown is not a reason to kill anyone. They had multiple guns trained on him ready to shoot at the sight of a threat, which did not exist.

guessmyname 8y ago

> The officers were acting under the impression the man they saw was an unhinged person who just shot their own father. In this case if you saw them reaching for what could possibly be a firearm many people would likely react in a similar manner. Our survival instincts are incredibly strong. Wow! That’s scary, I thought SWAT was trained to assess the situation to be able to react accordingly. Now I’m afraid to visit the US in fear that the police will kill me just because I look suspicious. I didn’t know they were so afraid to the point of firing their guns in fear of being hurt.

maccio92 8y ago
Did you not read the context of the article? The "swatter" called the police and told them he had killed "his" father and was armed and dangerous. They were showing up to the scene with that context... It's not remotely the same as you being a random visitor in the country. Don't be ridiculous.
- smileysteve 8y ago
  > It's not remotely the same as you being a random visitor Only if op stays in a residence (AirBnb, vrbo, friend's house) that could be confused with somebody playing a video game. > Don't be ridiculous. Unless some other person who may or may not even be in the country (U.S. caller id authentication and e911 systems are lacking) can provide a fiction that would wind up with the poster in the middle. That the police trust a system with such flaws to an extent that they are willing to kill for it is troublesome. Importantly, the man killed was not the intended target; The swatter effectively pressed pandora's button. In a non swatting situation, this happened to a family staying in Georgia. An informant fingered a house for a drug dealer, and the police shot a flash-bang through the AirBnb's window right into a baby's crib, causing severe burns and other health concerns. https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/attorney-child-hurt-swat-raid-looks-us-attorney-in/137264875 https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/attorney-child-hurt-swat-ra...
dang 8y ago
Please don't troll here or take threads further into flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- guessmyname 8y ago
  Thank you Dang, I’ve read the Hacker News Guidelines multiple times in all these years I’ve been visiting this website. As a non-native English speaker, I’m not sure what exactly in my comment above is considered “trolling” or “flamewar”. I’m legitimately scared that if I visit the US I will be a target and SWAT will not be careful enough to assess the situation, and instead will decide to kill me based on false information. You have commented —many times— that repetitive comments like this in the website will get a user’s account banned, so from now on I will be extra careful with my comments as to not offend someone that may end up affecting my presence in the community. Thank you for the advice.
  - dang 8y ago
    Moderation is pattern-matching. Your comments, to my reading, matched the style of a particular kind of ultra-sincere-sounding concern troll. If I got that wrong, that was a bad guess and I'm very sorry. In case it helps, I took a quick look and your other recent comments seem fine.

ameister14 8y ago

The problem is that violations of the Rules of Engagement in combat are treated more strictly than police killing innocent people. That's a pretty low bar in civilian life, and so shouldn't be the case.

scarface74 8y ago

Cops are suppose to be better trained. He signed up to put his life in danger. The innocent civilian didn’t.

BenjiWiebe 8y ago
Aren't cops trained that their own safety is number one? Or am i making things up?
- drdeca 8y ago
  From what I've heard, I think that they are. I also don't think they should be.
- scarface74 8y ago
  Yes the whole “I’d rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6”.
- soraminazuki 8y ago
  I was under the impression that the number one duty of the police is to protect its citizens. I may have been proven wrong, as you suggest.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    It is their duty, but as a minority, I’m really hesitant about trusting police. It’s to a point where if I had to call police to my house if it was broken into, I would let them know in advance that my I’m Black since I live in a mostly White neighborhood and I wouldn’t want them coming in guns blazing thinking that I’m breaking into my own house. EDIT: This was just posted on HN https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/mar/29/willie-mccoy-police-shooting-video-vallejo https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/mar/29/willie-mccoy...
  - thelasthuman 8y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columb...

nickfromseattle 8y ago

The officer was 20m away behind a squad car, shining blindingly bright lights while having a rifle pointed at the suspect. The risk of officer being shot is relatively low. Could have waited until he confirmed he saw a weapon.