6 ms·

I wonder where this begins. Is it learned at home (from a parent driver who complains about bikers a lot)? Is there a popular TV show where they keep making fun

by dfxm12 8y ago

I wonder where this begins. Is it learned at home (from a parent driver who complains about bikers a lot)? Is there a popular TV show where they keep making fun of bikers? Do people have one bad experience with a biker and just apply that to all bikers? My driver's ed instructor had a saying that cyclists should be shot! It was a comedy line, yeah, but he kept repeating it...

moate 8y ago
>>Do people have one bad experience with a biker and just apply that to all bikers? As someone from the US, this phrasing confused me. "Bikers" has a much more common meaning here. If someone says they're going to a biker bar, they will not be putting on a spandex riding suit and peddling. That said, I feel that both cyclists and bikers suffer from similar problems. I've always assumed that because of the high visibility of their difference relative to cars, people notice their illegal road behavior more. Cyclists blowing through red lights, motorcycles weaving between lanes, all of this is extremely visible to other motorists. The behavior then gets tied to the vehicle, rather than individual riders, and then people start to feel that these riders are always problematic.
- dfxm12 8y ago
  As someone from the US, this phrasing confused me. "Bikers" has a much more common meaning here. I'm from the US and I disagree. Maybe in your community that's the more common meaning, but you can't extrapolate that to the entire country. Context clues should make it obvious what I mean anyway. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRnxEZJCey4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRnxEZJCey4 So you think we dehumanize people we judge to be criminals? That would be unfortunate, if true. Sure, it might be reasonable to dehumanize the perpetrators of some heinous acts (serial murder being just one example), but weaving between lanes (which isn't even illegal everywhere to my knowledge) falls way short of that.
  - kelnos 8y ago
    > So you think we dehumanize people we judge to be criminals? Yes. I mean, that's pretty much what the article posted here is about. And this extends to other things that also fall far short of heinous acts: people in the US jailed for minor drug offenses are similarly dehumanized by many people in the "war on drugs" crowd.
BethGagaShaggy 8y ago
I don't know about you, but when I'm driving I always feel that either everyone else on the road should be shot, or that I should shoot myself, or both. And I'm pretty sure nearly everyone else feels the same. So if your teacher didn't say anything to a similar effect about drivers, that's because it has long been a given. In the vast majority of cities and towns, driving, cycling or even walking is just a constant pain.
- dfxm12 8y ago
  You think we think we're the only human on the road. Like (the royal) we has some divine right to the road, and these other peons aren't sophisticated enough to share it with us. I don't personally feel this way, but I could buy this level of narcissism as an explanation (if you truly feel suicidal when driving, please seek help or take a bus).
gonational 8y ago
I would like to start by saying I’m not against bicycles sharing the roads in anyway; I’m just attempting to explain the rationale for this kind of thinking in many people I know personally (in South Florida this is a hot button issue). Most roads are built primarily for motor vehicles, so when you are driving a car, you are driving on a road that you paid for specifically to drive your car on, and somebody else is leisurely (except for in certain big cities, most bicycling miles are done for leisure or sport) enjoying the same road for free, on a bicycle, putting themselves at risk and putting some of the burden of their risk on you (if they veer into your lane and you hit them, good luck trying to get out of that). A grossly exaggerated analogy would be seeing people come to your apartment complex and using the garbage chute as a slide for their kids to play on. If the kids are playing in the chute and you put garbage down it and injure one of them, you’re on the hook. Imagine how this would make you feel, every time you see parents bringing their kids to play in the chute.
- Schaulustiger 8y ago
  Huh, so you paid for the road and the cyclist didn't? I'm not an American, but I don't think there's a road tax for car owners in the US.
  - magduf 8y ago
    It's some of both. We have fuel taxes which pay for roads, but it's not nearly enough (because the taxes are too low) so a lot of the funds come from general taxes, which everyone pays. So the drivers are paying more for the roads, but the cyclists are also paying for those roads with their income taxes, sales taxes, etc.
    - viscanti 8y ago
      > So the drivers are paying more for the roads, but the cyclists are also paying for those roads with their income taxes, sales taxes, etc. And cars also put the vast majority of the wear and tear on the roads. So while they might pay more overall, they don't pay their fair share compared to bike riders who fund the roads from their taxes. Bike riders (and people who don't use roads) end up subsidizing roads for people who drive cars.
loco5niner 8y ago
I believe it begins with cyclist behavior.
EthanHeilman 8y ago
Listen to shock jocks on the radio. Jokes about dooring or running over cyclists are pretty common. There used to be a radio show in Massachusetts [0] I listened to a bunch as a teenager. They had a weekly segment for a while where drivers would call in and tell stories about how they attacked cyclists and then laugh about it. I think it was mostly just drivers expressing their violent fantasies, but one or two of the stories may have been real. It definitely dehumanized cyclists and encouraged violence against them. Later the same radio show, during the build up to the Iraq war, had an episode in which they said anti-war protesters should have their tongued ripped out at the root. Violence against groups they didn't like was a pretty common theme on their show and other radio shows. Incidentally they were banned from Massachusetts not for advocating violence or dehumanizing the enemy of the day but for faking the Governor's death as an April fools day. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opie_and_Anthony#1995%E2%80%931998:_WAAF_Boston https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opie_and_Anthony#1995%E2%80%93...
coldtea 8y ago
>Do people have one bad experience with a biker and just apply that to all bikers? I've never seen a biker who didn't ride like an asshole in the city... And I'm a pedestrian...
- dfxm12 8y ago
  I don't doubt that you only remember the assholes. I do doubt that you've never seen a non-asshole biker though. Still, do you dehumanize all the people who you think are assholes?
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >Still, do you dehumanize all the people who you think are assholes? Yeah, it's fun.
- scarejunba 8y ago
  Likewise, I'm only a pedestrian now. And never seen a driver follow the rules.

by dfxm12 8y ago

moate 8y ago

>>Do people have one bad experience with a biker and just apply that to all bikers? As someone from the US, this phrasing confused me. "Bikers" has a much more common meaning here. If someone says they're going to a biker bar, they will not be putting on a spandex riding suit and peddling. That said, I feel that both cyclists and bikers suffer from similar problems. I've always assumed that because of the high visibility of their difference relative to cars, people notice their illegal road behavior more. Cyclists blowing through red lights, motorcycles weaving between lanes, all of this is extremely visible to other motorists. The behavior then gets tied to the vehicle, rather than individual riders, and then people start to feel that these riders are always problematic.

dfxm12 8y ago
As someone from the US, this phrasing confused me. "Bikers" has a much more common meaning here. I'm from the US and I disagree. Maybe in your community that's the more common meaning, but you can't extrapolate that to the entire country. Context clues should make it obvious what I mean anyway. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRnxEZJCey4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRnxEZJCey4 So you think we dehumanize people we judge to be criminals? That would be unfortunate, if true. Sure, it might be reasonable to dehumanize the perpetrators of some heinous acts (serial murder being just one example), but weaving between lanes (which isn't even illegal everywhere to my knowledge) falls way short of that.
- kelnos 8y ago
  > So you think we dehumanize people we judge to be criminals? Yes. I mean, that's pretty much what the article posted here is about. And this extends to other things that also fall far short of heinous acts: people in the US jailed for minor drug offenses are similarly dehumanized by many people in the "war on drugs" crowd.

BethGagaShaggy 8y ago

I don't know about you, but when I'm driving I always feel that either everyone else on the road should be shot, or that I should shoot myself, or both. And I'm pretty sure nearly everyone else feels the same. So if your teacher didn't say anything to a similar effect about drivers, that's because it has long been a given. In the vast majority of cities and towns, driving, cycling or even walking is just a constant pain.

dfxm12 8y ago
You think we think we're the only human on the road. Like (the royal) we has some divine right to the road, and these other peons aren't sophisticated enough to share it with us. I don't personally feel this way, but I could buy this level of narcissism as an explanation (if you truly feel suicidal when driving, please seek help or take a bus).

gonational 8y ago

I would like to start by saying I’m not against bicycles sharing the roads in anyway; I’m just attempting to explain the rationale for this kind of thinking in many people I know personally (in South Florida this is a hot button issue). Most roads are built primarily for motor vehicles, so when you are driving a car, you are driving on a road that you paid for specifically to drive your car on, and somebody else is leisurely (except for in certain big cities, most bicycling miles are done for leisure or sport) enjoying the same road for free, on a bicycle, putting themselves at risk and putting some of the burden of their risk on you (if they veer into your lane and you hit them, good luck trying to get out of that). A grossly exaggerated analogy would be seeing people come to your apartment complex and using the garbage chute as a slide for their kids to play on. If the kids are playing in the chute and you put garbage down it and injure one of them, you’re on the hook. Imagine how this would make you feel, every time you see parents bringing their kids to play in the chute.

Schaulustiger 8y ago
Huh, so you paid for the road and the cyclist didn't? I'm not an American, but I don't think there's a road tax for car owners in the US.
- magduf 8y ago
  It's some of both. We have fuel taxes which pay for roads, but it's not nearly enough (because the taxes are too low) so a lot of the funds come from general taxes, which everyone pays. So the drivers are paying more for the roads, but the cyclists are also paying for those roads with their income taxes, sales taxes, etc.
  - viscanti 8y ago
    > So the drivers are paying more for the roads, but the cyclists are also paying for those roads with their income taxes, sales taxes, etc. And cars also put the vast majority of the wear and tear on the roads. So while they might pay more overall, they don't pay their fair share compared to bike riders who fund the roads from their taxes. Bike riders (and people who don't use roads) end up subsidizing roads for people who drive cars.

loco5niner 8y ago

I believe it begins with cyclist behavior.

EthanHeilman 8y ago

Listen to shock jocks on the radio. Jokes about dooring or running over cyclists are pretty common. There used to be a radio show in Massachusetts [0] I listened to a bunch as a teenager. They had a weekly segment for a while where drivers would call in and tell stories about how they attacked cyclists and then laugh about it. I think it was mostly just drivers expressing their violent fantasies, but one or two of the stories may have been real. It definitely dehumanized cyclists and encouraged violence against them. Later the same radio show, during the build up to the Iraq war, had an episode in which they said anti-war protesters should have their tongued ripped out at the root. Violence against groups they didn't like was a pretty common theme on their show and other radio shows. Incidentally they were banned from Massachusetts not for advocating violence or dehumanizing the enemy of the day but for faking the Governor's death as an April fools day. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opie_and_Anthony#1995%E2%80%931998:_WAAF_Boston https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opie_and_Anthony#1995%E2%80%93...

coldtea 8y ago

>Do people have one bad experience with a biker and just apply that to all bikers? I've never seen a biker who didn't ride like an asshole in the city... And I'm a pedestrian...

dfxm12 8y ago
I don't doubt that you only remember the assholes. I do doubt that you've never seen a non-asshole biker though. Still, do you dehumanize all the people who you think are assholes?
- coldtea 8y ago
  >Still, do you dehumanize all the people who you think are assholes? Yeah, it's fun.
scarejunba 8y ago
Likewise, I'm only a pedestrian now. And never seen a driver follow the rules.