7 ms·

Polari: The Lost Language of Gay Men (2016)

59 points by richardhod 8y ago

sctb 8y ago
Discussion from a couple of years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15238366 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15238366. And from 2015: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10104648 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10104648
eindiran 8y ago
If you thought this was interesting, it's worth looking up other argots/cants. Here are some interesting examples: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhyming_slang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhyming_slang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thieves%27_cant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thieves%27_cant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padonkaffsky_jargon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padonkaffsky_jargon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelta
benj111 8y ago
I find it interesting that within the space of a human lifetime these words can go from secret language to common usage, completely divorced from where they came from. I wonder what my Grandparents think when I discuss having a bevvy. Although that shouldn't really be surprising, as my younger brother will happily use bad to mean good without any context/intonation whatsoever. So if a common word can reverse in meaning in a decade....
- clouddrover 8y ago
  > my younger brother will happily use bad to mean good Here's an example of that from the 1989 movie The Wizard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVc6xuQfq9Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVc6xuQfq9Q He loves the Nintendo Power Glove. It's so bad.
  - benj111 8y ago
    Yes its been around for a while, but the intonation etc clarified the meaning. My brother doesn't say "that is bad", he says "that is bad". Then he gets exasperated when I ask him if he means good or not good.
    - Angostura 8y ago
      Bad to mean good was certainly in playground use in the UK in the 1970s, in London. If something was particularly good - it was ‘well bad’
      - benj111 8y ago
        "without any context/intonation whatsoever" I grew up with that usage, I coped very well with that usage. If I'm talking with my 12 year old mates saying "wow that's well bad" it is obvious what I mean. If I bake a new cake recipe and ask you to try it, and you neutrally reply "that is bad", what am I to infer from that? Not "wow that is well bad", or "that's bad ass", or "mmm that is one bad cake". If Stephen Hawking said "that is bad", what would you infer from that?
        bartread 8y ago
        > If Stephen Hawking said "that is bad", what would you infer from that? That he'd faked his death.
        mercer 8y ago
        That comment of yours is bad.
  - NikkiA 8y ago
    Almost like it was part of the cultural lexicon then, for some, obscure reason.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_(album) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_(album)
- exelius 8y ago
  I would assume those words would leak into the public lexicon without the public realizing their origins. The gay community back then was largely camouflaged within the few areas they were accepted: artistic communities and long naval voyages (where men having sex with men was considered a reality of life at sea). So people may associate those words with the larger groups which were not suspected of being gay.
- rsynnott 8y ago
  Note that some words are from pre-existing English (especially London) slang. I think ‘bevvy’ May be an example of that.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
vincentpants 8y ago
First thought that came to mind was "Oh hey, I know almost all those words in the first list thanks to Monty Python!" My mind is blown.
- TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
  They were widely used on BBC Radio comedy in the 50s and 60s, less so in the 70s. Also less so on TV. Most people - including me, and almost everyone else who watched Monty Python - had no idea what they were hearing.
  - KineticLensman 8y ago
    Yes, a good example being the radio show “Round the Horne”. Polari was used to smuggle all sorts of innuendo past the BBC sensors
threesquared 8y ago
For some reason Cloudflare DNS does not resolve that domain.... *** one.one.one.one can't find www.lancaster.ac.uk: Server failed
- kseistrup 8y ago
  Are you sure it was not just a glitsch? $ dig a www.lancaster.ac.uk @1.1.1.1 +short www.lancs.ac.uk. 148.88.65.80 $ dig aaaa www.lancaster.ac.uk @1.1.1.1 +short www.lancs.ac.uk. 2001:630:80:2ff::80:1
  - threesquared 8y ago
    Yeah but if you do the long version the status is SERVFAIL? edit: It's a known issue: https://community.cloudflare.com/t/www-lancaster-ac-uk-not-resolving-servfail/32211/2 https://community.cloudflare.com/t/www-lancaster-ac-uk-not-r...
    - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
      ...and has been for six months. That's disappointing of Cloudflare, considering the Nasa domain problems reported at similar time were resolved in short order.
foxhill 8y ago
that reminded me about this video! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8yEH8TZUsk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8yEH8TZUsk
ATsch 8y ago
What does "female impersonators" refer to here? Surely not transwomen or crossdressers? That seems like an extremely rude term.
- lenticular 8y ago
  It's an old term for drag queens, not for transwomen. It's not offensive.
- rsynnott 8y ago
  No, it’s an older mostly UK English term for drag queens. It doesn’t imply anything in particular about gender identity.

59 points by richardhod 8y ago

sctb 8y ago

Discussion from a couple of years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15238366 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15238366. And from 2015: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10104648 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10104648

eindiran 8y ago

If you thought this was interesting, it's worth looking up other argots/cants. Here are some interesting examples: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhyming_slang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhyming_slang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thieves%27_cant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thieves%27_cant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padonkaffsky_jargon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padonkaffsky_jargon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelta

benj111 8y ago

I find it interesting that within the space of a human lifetime these words can go from secret language to common usage, completely divorced from where they came from. I wonder what my Grandparents think when I discuss having a bevvy. Although that shouldn't really be surprising, as my younger brother will happily use bad to mean good without any context/intonation whatsoever. So if a common word can reverse in meaning in a decade....

clouddrover 8y ago
> my younger brother will happily use bad to mean good Here's an example of that from the 1989 movie The Wizard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVc6xuQfq9Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVc6xuQfq9Q He loves the Nintendo Power Glove. It's so bad.
- benj111 8y ago
  Yes its been around for a while, but the intonation etc clarified the meaning. My brother doesn't say "that is bad", he says "that is bad". Then he gets exasperated when I ask him if he means good or not good.
  - Angostura 8y ago
    Bad to mean good was certainly in playground use in the UK in the 1970s, in London. If something was particularly good - it was ‘well bad’
    - benj111 8y ago
      "without any context/intonation whatsoever" I grew up with that usage, I coped very well with that usage. If I'm talking with my 12 year old mates saying "wow that's well bad" it is obvious what I mean. If I bake a new cake recipe and ask you to try it, and you neutrally reply "that is bad", what am I to infer from that? Not "wow that is well bad", or "that's bad ass", or "mmm that is one bad cake". If Stephen Hawking said "that is bad", what would you infer from that?
      - bartread 8y ago
        > If Stephen Hawking said "that is bad", what would you infer from that? That he'd faked his death.
        mercer 8y ago
        That comment of yours is bad.
- NikkiA 8y ago
  Almost like it was part of the cultural lexicon then, for some, obscure reason.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_(album) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_(album)
exelius 8y ago
I would assume those words would leak into the public lexicon without the public realizing their origins. The gay community back then was largely camouflaged within the few areas they were accepted: artistic communities and long naval voyages (where men having sex with men was considered a reality of life at sea). So people may associate those words with the larger groups which were not suspected of being gay.
rsynnott 8y ago
Note that some words are from pre-existing English (especially London) slang. I think ‘bevvy’ May be an example of that.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

vincentpants 8y ago

First thought that came to mind was "Oh hey, I know almost all those words in the first list thanks to Monty Python!" My mind is blown.

TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
They were widely used on BBC Radio comedy in the 50s and 60s, less so in the 70s. Also less so on TV. Most people - including me, and almost everyone else who watched Monty Python - had no idea what they were hearing.
- KineticLensman 8y ago
  Yes, a good example being the radio show “Round the Horne”. Polari was used to smuggle all sorts of innuendo past the BBC sensors

threesquared 8y ago

For some reason Cloudflare DNS does not resolve that domain.... *** one.one.one.one can't find www.lancaster.ac.uk: Server failed

kseistrup 8y ago
Are you sure it was not just a glitsch? $ dig a www.lancaster.ac.uk @1.1.1.1 +short www.lancs.ac.uk. 148.88.65.80 $ dig aaaa www.lancaster.ac.uk @1.1.1.1 +short www.lancs.ac.uk. 2001:630:80:2ff::80:1
- threesquared 8y ago
  Yeah but if you do the long version the status is SERVFAIL? edit: It's a known issue: https://community.cloudflare.com/t/www-lancaster-ac-uk-not-resolving-servfail/32211/2 https://community.cloudflare.com/t/www-lancaster-ac-uk-not-r...
  - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
    ...and has been for six months. That's disappointing of Cloudflare, considering the Nasa domain problems reported at similar time were resolved in short order.

foxhill 8y ago

that reminded me about this video! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8yEH8TZUsk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8yEH8TZUsk

ATsch 8y ago

What does "female impersonators" refer to here? Surely not transwomen or crossdressers? That seems like an extremely rude term.

lenticular 8y ago
It's an old term for drag queens, not for transwomen. It's not offensive.
rsynnott 8y ago
No, it’s an older mostly UK English term for drag queens. It doesn’t imply anything in particular about gender identity.