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> What utter garbage This opening, along with your straw man in the second sentence, shows that you're not debating this topic in good faith. It would be nice

> What utter garbage This opening, along with your straw man in the second sentence, shows that you're not debating this topic in good faith. It would be nice to think that every horrific event in history was simply a case of bad people knowingly doing bad things. Sure, sometimes it is, when we're talking about a lone actor or despotic leader who just wants to bring about destruction and misery for their own pathological reasons. But at least as often, everyone thinks they're the good ones fighting for a just cause. As has often been said here before, one person's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. One person's liberating saviour is another's tyrannical occupying force. It might be easy for us to look at 1930s-40s Europe and judge which side was right and which was wrong, but to an ordinary German or Italian citizen or soldier who didn't have a full understanding of what was going on, and just knew that their country had been economically depressed for too long, it wasn't so clear. And in plenty of other major conflicts since then, the rightness or wrongness of each side is very hard to discern. This is not suggesting that racism or bigotry is ever to be endorsed or validated. But bigotry is usually an expression of a deeper distress that has nothing to do with the target of the bigotry. It's often just scapegoating for a largely unrelated problem. By paying attention to what the real source of that distress is (e.g., post-WW1 misery), it's possible to respond to the real problem and prevent the bigotry and consequent horrors from developing at all.

qualipetv 8y ago
No, it's objectively garbage to take yourself out of the equation and accept fascism like it's not going to hurt anyone. I'm not going in retrospective here and say my judgement would have been perfect 80 years ago. I say we need to learn from past developments and mistakes made in the course of history. Stop abstracting away the problem at hand which is White Nationalism and other fascist thought becoming more and more acceptable. > By paying attention to what the real source of that distress is (e.g., post-WW1 misery) You think you have it all figured out and you 'get it' now. That's naive in my opinion. And I'm not talking about good and bad, some kind of universalist dualism that informs my every action; I'm talking about being concerned about my friends that may or may not fit certain views on human existence that fascist thought provides. At least try to get where I'm coming from instead of throwing out useless internet jargon ('strawman') without even understanding why I'm reacting so harshly.
- tomhoward 8y ago
  > You think you have it all figured out and you 'get it' now I've spent over 7 years undertaking a variety of formal approaches to deep personal introspection, and I've never felt less like I can, or anyone can, "have it all figured out". But one thing I've learned a thing or two about is the tendency to ascribe the greatest threats and wrongs to some easily-identified "other" without paying adequate attention to the failings and risks in our own group and within our own self. For what it's worth I spend vast amounts of time thinking about what kinds of approaches to eradicating bigotry and oppression might actually be effective, and what role a humble individual as myself might be able to play in moving the needle over the long term. To suggest that this is a matter I believe is "not going to hurt anyone" is about as wrong as you could possibly be.

qualipetv 8y ago

No, it's objectively garbage to take yourself out of the equation and accept fascism like it's not going to hurt anyone. I'm not going in retrospective here and say my judgement would have been perfect 80 years ago. I say we need to learn from past developments and mistakes made in the course of history. Stop abstracting away the problem at hand which is White Nationalism and other fascist thought becoming more and more acceptable. > By paying attention to what the real source of that distress is (e.g., post-WW1 misery) You think you have it all figured out and you 'get it' now. That's naive in my opinion. And I'm not talking about good and bad, some kind of universalist dualism that informs my every action; I'm talking about being concerned about my friends that may or may not fit certain views on human existence that fascist thought provides. At least try to get where I'm coming from instead of throwing out useless internet jargon ('strawman') without even understanding why I'm reacting so harshly.

tomhoward 8y ago
> You think you have it all figured out and you 'get it' now I've spent over 7 years undertaking a variety of formal approaches to deep personal introspection, and I've never felt less like I can, or anyone can, "have it all figured out". But one thing I've learned a thing or two about is the tendency to ascribe the greatest threats and wrongs to some easily-identified "other" without paying adequate attention to the failings and risks in our own group and within our own self. For what it's worth I spend vast amounts of time thinking about what kinds of approaches to eradicating bigotry and oppression might actually be effective, and what role a humble individual as myself might be able to play in moving the needle over the long term. To suggest that this is a matter I believe is "not going to hurt anyone" is about as wrong as you could possibly be.