6 ms·

So, to summarize, on par with iOS design’s decision from day one, right?

ez7r6i 8y ago
I've always hated that apps were allowed to do whatever the hell they wanted on Android. I'm happy to see these changes, as Android is cheaper than iOS, and now I've got two options instead of one.
- postalrat 8y ago
  I'm with you. It should have been this way from day one.
- ubercow13 8y ago
  This seems like it's only an issue if you install apps you don't trust. It seems to me that the premise that you would want to install apps you don't trust is itself broken. Why should we give up the power and utility of our devices just to make this safe?
  - dTal 8y ago
    If it even can be made safe at all. I would have thought that Meltdown/Spectre would have made it very apparent by now that trying to perfectly isolate two programs on the same machine is like trying to make a colander float.
  - jsight 8y ago
    Well, its a matter of degrees. I might want an app that I trust to have access to photos, but not my whole SD Card. That hasn't really been possible in the past. And we've seen that apps that are trustworthy can be bought and sold, sometimes by companies that are very untrustworthy.
    - ubercow13 8y ago
      While trying to achieve that control, does this change really allow your most trusted apps to keep the same level of utility? It doesn't sound like it, for example it sounds like Termux will no longer be as useful
  - earhart 8y ago
    I don’t know how to trust an app. Like, how would I make that decision? When I used Android, I just didn’t install things unless I really, really wanted them, and they were popular enough that I figured security researchers would likely be looking at them closely. (Which, of course, was a great incentive to keep using Google’s ecosystem for everything.) I tried iOS a few years ago, and one of the big differences is that I’m a lot more confident about trying random apps; I know there’ll still be shady apps, but Apple’s vetting and the iOS security model give me a lot more confidence. I’ve installed (and paid for) a lot more apps as a result; my phone’s much more usable to me.
    - theon144 8y ago
      Like, how do you decide which apps to trust on your PC? While Windows does have a store, I'd wager the majority of installs are still done by downloading .exe files off the software's homepages. Executable binaries that run with full privileges, with minimal permission granularity, no less. Somehow we're not discussing prohibiting filesystem access for personal computers? Why is this an issue for smartphones, a.k.a. a pocket-sized personal computer?
      - unilynx 8y ago
        Inertia (the mass of already existing unsandboxed software) probably makes securing the (Windows) PC platform a lost cause. If Windows had proper filesystem sandboxing enforced on applications, ransomware would disappear overnight
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        Microsoft is slowly migrating Win32 into the store with each W10 release.
    - ubercow13 8y ago
      For example, I largely trust anything on F-Droid and various other open source apps.
kerng 8y ago
Probably. And it's bad, because our devices are so powerful and we aren't leveraging them. I wonder someone else will come to the rescue soon and move mobile forward usefully. Its pretty stagnant now, neither Apple nor Google innovate. Its Samsung and Xioami mostly now. Would be funny if someone like Microsoft would deliver something novel soon to see positive changes for consumers.
- magduf 8y ago
  Microsoft tried, and all they delivered was an extremely ugly tiled UI with garish colors that no one liked. They gave up on it.
  - Amezarak 8y ago
    I think most people like Windows Phone. I certainly did - it was the best phone OS by far imo. Writing this from my iPhone only because the Nokia died. The real problem was the app story, and part of that was due to the influence of Google.
    - sithadmin 8y ago
      >I think most people like Windows Phone. The sales figures disagree.
      - Amezarak 8y ago
        A lot of great products beloved by a lot of people fail in the market despite their quality for all kinds of reasons. In this case, the lateness of the product, the continual burning of their phone platforms, anticompetitive behavior of Google and some of its associated companies, carrier disinterest, and a lackluster marketing campaign are among the reasons it failed. I doubt you will find many people who tried or used the phone who didn’t like it.
      - RussianCow 8y ago
        I think what they're saying is that most people liked the OS itself, but didn't like the lack of apps, which is what ultimately killed it.
jsight 8y ago
I wouldn't say that. SD Cards and local file selection are still possible under this model, and it is still possible to share files between apps like this. It is just that now there is a lot more control to insure that the user is aware of it, and some new technical limitations. Its disruptive, but not nearly as limited as iOS.
barrkel 8y ago
Indeed, the differentiator was one of the core reasons I preferred Android to iOS. The content jails in iOS made the device into a media consumption toy, rather than anything productive.
pjmlp 8y ago
You mean the one they copied from Symbian Series 3?

I've always hated that apps were allowed to do whatever the hell they wanted on Android. I'm happy to see these changes, as Android is cheaper than iOS, and now I've got two options instead of one.

postalrat 8y ago
I'm with you. It should have been this way from day one.
ubercow13 8y ago
This seems like it's only an issue if you install apps you don't trust. It seems to me that the premise that you would want to install apps you don't trust is itself broken. Why should we give up the power and utility of our devices just to make this safe?
- dTal 8y ago
  If it even can be made safe at all. I would have thought that Meltdown/Spectre would have made it very apparent by now that trying to perfectly isolate two programs on the same machine is like trying to make a colander float.
- jsight 8y ago
  Well, its a matter of degrees. I might want an app that I trust to have access to photos, but not my whole SD Card. That hasn't really been possible in the past. And we've seen that apps that are trustworthy can be bought and sold, sometimes by companies that are very untrustworthy.
  - ubercow13 8y ago
    While trying to achieve that control, does this change really allow your most trusted apps to keep the same level of utility? It doesn't sound like it, for example it sounds like Termux will no longer be as useful
- earhart 8y ago
  I don’t know how to trust an app. Like, how would I make that decision? When I used Android, I just didn’t install things unless I really, really wanted them, and they were popular enough that I figured security researchers would likely be looking at them closely. (Which, of course, was a great incentive to keep using Google’s ecosystem for everything.) I tried iOS a few years ago, and one of the big differences is that I’m a lot more confident about trying random apps; I know there’ll still be shady apps, but Apple’s vetting and the iOS security model give me a lot more confidence. I’ve installed (and paid for) a lot more apps as a result; my phone’s much more usable to me.
  - theon144 8y ago
    Like, how do you decide which apps to trust on your PC? While Windows does have a store, I'd wager the majority of installs are still done by downloading .exe files off the software's homepages. Executable binaries that run with full privileges, with minimal permission granularity, no less. Somehow we're not discussing prohibiting filesystem access for personal computers? Why is this an issue for smartphones, a.k.a. a pocket-sized personal computer?
    - unilynx 8y ago
      Inertia (the mass of already existing unsandboxed software) probably makes securing the (Windows) PC platform a lost cause. If Windows had proper filesystem sandboxing enforced on applications, ransomware would disappear overnight
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      Microsoft is slowly migrating Win32 into the store with each W10 release.
  - ubercow13 8y ago
    For example, I largely trust anything on F-Droid and various other open source apps.

kerng 8y ago

Probably. And it's bad, because our devices are so powerful and we aren't leveraging them. I wonder someone else will come to the rescue soon and move mobile forward usefully. Its pretty stagnant now, neither Apple nor Google innovate. Its Samsung and Xioami mostly now. Would be funny if someone like Microsoft would deliver something novel soon to see positive changes for consumers.

magduf 8y ago
Microsoft tried, and all they delivered was an extremely ugly tiled UI with garish colors that no one liked. They gave up on it.
- Amezarak 8y ago
  I think most people like Windows Phone. I certainly did - it was the best phone OS by far imo. Writing this from my iPhone only because the Nokia died. The real problem was the app story, and part of that was due to the influence of Google.
  - sithadmin 8y ago
    >I think most people like Windows Phone. The sales figures disagree.
    - Amezarak 8y ago
      A lot of great products beloved by a lot of people fail in the market despite their quality for all kinds of reasons. In this case, the lateness of the product, the continual burning of their phone platforms, anticompetitive behavior of Google and some of its associated companies, carrier disinterest, and a lackluster marketing campaign are among the reasons it failed. I doubt you will find many people who tried or used the phone who didn’t like it.
    - RussianCow 8y ago
      I think what they're saying is that most people liked the OS itself, but didn't like the lack of apps, which is what ultimately killed it.

jsight 8y ago

I wouldn't say that. SD Cards and local file selection are still possible under this model, and it is still possible to share files between apps like this. It is just that now there is a lot more control to insure that the user is aware of it, and some new technical limitations. Its disruptive, but not nearly as limited as iOS.

barrkel 8y ago

Indeed, the differentiator was one of the core reasons I preferred Android to iOS. The content jails in iOS made the device into a media consumption toy, rather than anything productive.

pjmlp 8y ago

You mean the one they copied from Symbian Series 3?