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> was frankly actually undemocratic The referendum was infinitely more democratic than the decision to join the EU, which was taken by PM John Major and his co

> was frankly actually undemocratic The referendum was infinitely more democratic than the decision to join the EU, which was taken by PM John Major and his colleagues when they signed the Maastricht Treaty in 1992. No-one asked the people.

dTal 8y ago
>>could have such dramatic consequences was frankly actually undemocratic The consequences of joining were far less dramatic than the consequences of suddenly leaving.
- infiniteseeker 8y ago
  >> The consequences of joining were far less dramatic than the consequences of suddenly leaving. I have no dog in this fight (not British or European) but this statement sounds like false equivalence to me.
  - dTal 8y ago
    In what way?
tigershark 8y ago
Absolutely not. UK is a representative democracy. So joining the Europe was by definition a democratic decision.
alistairSH 8y ago
That's not exactly true. The people elected members to Parliament. Those MPs selected a government, with Major at its head. It was a close decision - Major almost lost the confidence of the House - but the treaty was not signed by some rogue autocrat. Really no different than any other treaty in the UK. Not everything must be put to a public vote. The Executive has the power to sign treaties. Parliament may only advise, or in the extreme, withdraw confidence and call for a new government.
mnm1 8y ago
By that reasoning nothing Parliament (or Congress in the US) ever does is democratic because no one asked the people directly. That's not how the government is set up. In fact, this was a non-binding referendum. If Parliament decides not to leave it will be just as democratic as if they decide to leave. Too bad they don't have the wherewithal to make the right decision for their country instead of being swayed by a non-binding referendum. Or maybe they do? Who knows what that decision is other than Parliament? Either way, it'll be democratic no matter what they do.

dTal 8y ago

>>could have such dramatic consequences was frankly actually undemocratic The consequences of joining were far less dramatic than the consequences of suddenly leaving.

infiniteseeker 8y ago
>> The consequences of joining were far less dramatic than the consequences of suddenly leaving. I have no dog in this fight (not British or European) but this statement sounds like false equivalence to me.
- dTal 8y ago
  In what way?

tigershark 8y ago

Absolutely not. UK is a representative democracy. So joining the Europe was by definition a democratic decision.

alistairSH 8y ago

That's not exactly true. The people elected members to Parliament. Those MPs selected a government, with Major at its head. It was a close decision - Major almost lost the confidence of the House - but the treaty was not signed by some rogue autocrat. Really no different than any other treaty in the UK. Not everything must be put to a public vote. The Executive has the power to sign treaties. Parliament may only advise, or in the extreme, withdraw confidence and call for a new government.

mnm1 8y ago

By that reasoning nothing Parliament (or Congress in the US) ever does is democratic because no one asked the people directly. That's not how the government is set up. In fact, this was a non-binding referendum. If Parliament decides not to leave it will be just as democratic as if they decide to leave. Too bad they don't have the wherewithal to make the right decision for their country instead of being swayed by a non-binding referendum. Or maybe they do? Who knows what that decision is other than Parliament? Either way, it'll be democratic no matter what they do.