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I think the concept that Tencent is asking Epic to infect your computer with malware is a ridiculous conspiracy theory. I work for a western studio for which T

I think the concept that Tencent is asking Epic to infect your computer with malware is a ridiculous conspiracy theory. I work for a western studio for which Tencent is a majority shareholder, and I can tell you, Tencent hasn't even hinted at wanting any of our data, let harvesting more. As far as I can tell, their motives are simple and capitalistic. Somewhat ironically, it was all the western potential acquiring companies that had agendas that were very ethically distasteful to us. Tencent certainly complies with Chinese laws in china, but can you blame it? Wouldn't you comply with the law of your country?

Judgmentality 8y ago
> I work for a western studio for which Tencent is a majority shareholder, and I can tell you, Tencent hasn't even hinted at wanting any of our data, let harvesting more. How would you know if they did? Most employees have zero interactions with their employer's investors.
- Negitivefrags 8y ago
  Because I am the CTO of the company, and because the only interaction Tencent has with our company are during it's board meetings, which I am also a member of.
  - xiphias2 8y ago
    Nice comeback :) The person who asked should have looked at your profile.
  - undefinedblog 8y ago
    Awww, right in his face, that's cruial!
  - loriverkutya 8y ago
    The only interaction you know about. I was working for a telco hardware and software manufacturer and I remember when about 15 years ago, I was the QA, who was sent to China with an engineer to implement "a feature" onsite (yes it was a backdoor). Everybody could guessed in my team, why are we were sent there. Also worked at a cinema control software company and we had to implement the same feature. So yeah, it only take one engineer to implement a feature. (or a bug)
    - Angostura 8y ago
      > Everybody could guessed in my team So pretty widely known.
      - loriverkutya 8y ago
        Yeah, because we did not gave a shit about the NDA we had to sign.
    - ascar 8y ago
      And your CTO didn't know about your trip abroad? Seems highly unlikely.
      - loriverkutya 8y ago
        The CTO of the company probably was not even aware that we were working for the company.
  - PetahNZ 8y ago
    It has only been less than a year since then though... Also hello from NZ :)
  - kingosticks 8y ago
    And you could have mentioned that fact in your original post. This just reads like you baited someone into what was a reasonable response. I'm not sure why that'd be necessary so maybe it was entirely unintentional on your part.
  - Cyph0n 8y ago
    Congrats on the recent PS4 release! I’ve been a fan of PoE since closed beta.
unionpivo 8y ago
What makes you think something like this would be announced on company wide email? One or two guys, working on cheat detection might know something, or most likely are just told to ignore whatever, they see.
- huffmsa 8y ago
  Like Google's Dragonfly. Or AT&T letting the NSA splice intercepts in the main fiber room. Ntk only.
- empath75 8y ago
  intelligence services play the long game. Gradually exert pressure, put friendly management in place, move supporting services to Chinese data centers, etc. Maybe it takes 10 years. They aren’t in any rush.
- sky_nox 8y ago
  Click on his profile. He's the CTO of the company.
  - philwelch 8y ago
    Even if you're the CTO of a US company that's being infiltrated by a foreign intelligence agency, there are only three possibilities: * You are a foreign intelligence asset and and any denials on your part are lies. * You are not a foreign intelligence asset, but you know that strange things are afoot and have informed the FBI. In order to not jeopardize the counterintelligence investigation, you have been instructed to play dumb, and hence, any denials on your part are lies. * You are not a foreign intelligence asset and you have not noticed the infiltration. In this situation, you're not lying when you deny that anything's going on, you're just ignorant. Of course, if your company isn't being infiltrated by foreign intelligence, you will also, correctly, deny that the company is being infiltrated. I'm not saying that his company is being infiltrated or compromised; I'm saying that there's virtually zero informational value in someone in his position denying such a thing because no one would ever admit it.
yorwba 8y ago
> all the western potential acquiring companies that had agendas that were very ethically distasteful to us. Interesting, can you elaborate?
- Negitivefrags 8y ago
  I don't want to give examples of specific companies for what I hope are obvious reasons. But in basically all cases western companies were much more interested in buying us for our users, which they could then subject to whatever their business model is. Selling ads, selling subscriptions, selling data, whatever. Our companies profit was actually a negative to these western companies since it simply increases the price that they would have to pay to get at the users.
loriverkutya 8y ago
If the country law is aimed to achive 100% surveillance and zero privacy, yes, you can blame it.
- Moru 8y ago
  Yes, there is a difference between giving all your information by your own free will and the state spying on everything you do. On the other hand how many knows how much Facebook and Google collects about you and where that information ends up some time later? There was a lot of scifi about the information society and how that could derail in the future, where machines decides if you might commit a crime in the future and take preventative meassures. We are not far away from it now, just takes a few small jumps in the imagination to end up there :-)
  - PavlovsCat 8y ago
    > There was a lot of scifi about the information society More importantly, there is a lot of literature about totalitarianism.
orly1337 8y ago
> Tencent certainly complies with Chinese laws in china, but can you blame it? Wouldn't you comply with the law of your country? Since you've put yourself out here as CTO of a Tencent owned company... I've heard that in China, Fortnite requires a Chinese "real ID" to play. Aka China knows exactly who you are at all times. They also "punish" you for playing more than 3 hours at a time if you're under 18. And I can't prove, but assume they also record all conversations (otherwise... What is point of using real id??) This doesn't sound like something Epic games would want to be associated with if Tencent wasn't a major shareholder. Are you saying you've had no pressure at all to implement similar features and make your games "more friendly to the Chinese market"? To me it feels just like China buying up slivers of hollywood so nothing critical of the regime makes the big screen
- omnimus 8y ago
  The question is if this chinese id is requirement from gov to enter the market... how many corporations would refuse (EA for example)? Especialy with Fortnite which is sure to be super profitable. I am not saying Epic/Tencent is good or anything just that you don't need to be partialy owned by chinese company for this to happen. It is financial capitalist decision. Similar to why other companies want to enter china market. It would be more suspicious if Epic was doing it even when Fortnite woulnt be profitable in china.
  - yorwba 8y ago
    Since you mention EA, it appears that they partner with Tencent Games for the FIFA franchise: https://eafifa.qq.com/ https://eafifa.qq.com/

Judgmentality 8y ago

> I work for a western studio for which Tencent is a majority shareholder, and I can tell you, Tencent hasn't even hinted at wanting any of our data, let harvesting more. How would you know if they did? Most employees have zero interactions with their employer's investors.

Negitivefrags 8y ago
Because I am the CTO of the company, and because the only interaction Tencent has with our company are during it's board meetings, which I am also a member of.
- xiphias2 8y ago
  Nice comeback :) The person who asked should have looked at your profile.
- undefinedblog 8y ago
  Awww, right in his face, that's cruial!
- loriverkutya 8y ago
  The only interaction you know about. I was working for a telco hardware and software manufacturer and I remember when about 15 years ago, I was the QA, who was sent to China with an engineer to implement "a feature" onsite (yes it was a backdoor). Everybody could guessed in my team, why are we were sent there. Also worked at a cinema control software company and we had to implement the same feature. So yeah, it only take one engineer to implement a feature. (or a bug)
  - Angostura 8y ago
    > Everybody could guessed in my team So pretty widely known.
    - loriverkutya 8y ago
      Yeah, because we did not gave a shit about the NDA we had to sign.
  - ascar 8y ago
    And your CTO didn't know about your trip abroad? Seems highly unlikely.
    - loriverkutya 8y ago
      The CTO of the company probably was not even aware that we were working for the company.
- PetahNZ 8y ago
  It has only been less than a year since then though... Also hello from NZ :)
- kingosticks 8y ago
  And you could have mentioned that fact in your original post. This just reads like you baited someone into what was a reasonable response. I'm not sure why that'd be necessary so maybe it was entirely unintentional on your part.
- Cyph0n 8y ago
  Congrats on the recent PS4 release! I’ve been a fan of PoE since closed beta.

unionpivo 8y ago

What makes you think something like this would be announced on company wide email? One or two guys, working on cheat detection might know something, or most likely are just told to ignore whatever, they see.

huffmsa 8y ago
Like Google's Dragonfly. Or AT&T letting the NSA splice intercepts in the main fiber room. Ntk only.
empath75 8y ago
intelligence services play the long game. Gradually exert pressure, put friendly management in place, move supporting services to Chinese data centers, etc. Maybe it takes 10 years. They aren’t in any rush.
sky_nox 8y ago
Click on his profile. He's the CTO of the company.
- philwelch 8y ago
  Even if you're the CTO of a US company that's being infiltrated by a foreign intelligence agency, there are only three possibilities: * You are a foreign intelligence asset and and any denials on your part are lies. * You are not a foreign intelligence asset, but you know that strange things are afoot and have informed the FBI. In order to not jeopardize the counterintelligence investigation, you have been instructed to play dumb, and hence, any denials on your part are lies. * You are not a foreign intelligence asset and you have not noticed the infiltration. In this situation, you're not lying when you deny that anything's going on, you're just ignorant. Of course, if your company isn't being infiltrated by foreign intelligence, you will also, correctly, deny that the company is being infiltrated. I'm not saying that his company is being infiltrated or compromised; I'm saying that there's virtually zero informational value in someone in his position denying such a thing because no one would ever admit it.

yorwba 8y ago

> all the western potential acquiring companies that had agendas that were very ethically distasteful to us. Interesting, can you elaborate?

Negitivefrags 8y ago
I don't want to give examples of specific companies for what I hope are obvious reasons. But in basically all cases western companies were much more interested in buying us for our users, which they could then subject to whatever their business model is. Selling ads, selling subscriptions, selling data, whatever. Our companies profit was actually a negative to these western companies since it simply increases the price that they would have to pay to get at the users.

loriverkutya 8y ago

If the country law is aimed to achive 100% surveillance and zero privacy, yes, you can blame it.

Moru 8y ago
Yes, there is a difference between giving all your information by your own free will and the state spying on everything you do. On the other hand how many knows how much Facebook and Google collects about you and where that information ends up some time later? There was a lot of scifi about the information society and how that could derail in the future, where machines decides if you might commit a crime in the future and take preventative meassures. We are not far away from it now, just takes a few small jumps in the imagination to end up there :-)
- PavlovsCat 8y ago
  > There was a lot of scifi about the information society More importantly, there is a lot of literature about totalitarianism.

orly1337 8y ago

> Tencent certainly complies with Chinese laws in china, but can you blame it? Wouldn't you comply with the law of your country? Since you've put yourself out here as CTO of a Tencent owned company... I've heard that in China, Fortnite requires a Chinese "real ID" to play. Aka China knows exactly who you are at all times. They also "punish" you for playing more than 3 hours at a time if you're under 18. And I can't prove, but assume they also record all conversations (otherwise... What is point of using real id??) This doesn't sound like something Epic games would want to be associated with if Tencent wasn't a major shareholder. Are you saying you've had no pressure at all to implement similar features and make your games "more friendly to the Chinese market"? To me it feels just like China buying up slivers of hollywood so nothing critical of the regime makes the big screen

omnimus 8y ago
The question is if this chinese id is requirement from gov to enter the market... how many corporations would refuse (EA for example)? Especialy with Fortnite which is sure to be super profitable. I am not saying Epic/Tencent is good or anything just that you don't need to be partialy owned by chinese company for this to happen. It is financial capitalist decision. Similar to why other companies want to enter china market. It would be more suspicious if Epic was doing it even when Fortnite woulnt be profitable in china.
- yorwba 8y ago
  Since you mention EA, it appears that they partner with Tencent Games for the FIFA franchise: https://eafifa.qq.com/ https://eafifa.qq.com/