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‘The Wolf of Wall Street’ film was also a real-life scam
- mido22 8y agoDid they just misuse the word "irony"? Or am I just dumb and having trouble identifying which form of irony this is?
- tomerico 8y ago“a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often amusing as a result.“ Seems like a reasonable fit
- 2038AD 8y agoI disagree. It's more fitting than deliberately contrary. I would possibly see it if film had a point of being deliberately against the events depicted. A better of example of what I'm thinking is the story of the anti-piracy organisation illegally using music (as in without permission) in their anti-piracy ads.
- ccjnsn 8y agoA film about financial scams was funded in part by a financial scam. Is this not ironic?
- Yajirobe 8y agoNo. Irony is when the outcome of a state of affairs is opposite the expected one. The movie being about financial scams implies nothing about the making of the movie. Now, if the Wolf of Wall Street criticized (or made fun of) financial scam funded movies, that would be ironic.
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y agoNo, that would be hypocritical.
- 2038AD 8y agoIt would be both
- CloudNetworking 8y ago> Irony is when the outcome of a state of affairs is opposite the expected one. Like making a movie about financial scams, which one would expect it would be just "a movie about financial scams" and not "a financial scam", but it turns out it was also "a financial scam"? :-)
- 2038AD 8y ago>Like making a movie ... which one would expect it would be ... not "a financial scam" I think you have better expectations of the film industry than I do :-)
- CloudNetworking 8y agohahaha fair enough! :)
- OscarCunningham 8y agoIt would definitely be ironic if a movie about honesty and integrity had been funded by a scam. This is sort of the opposite, the topic of the movie and its source of funding are thematically similar, rather than being in opposition. So rather than describing it as "ironic" I'd use an antonym like "fitting" or "congruous".
- Top5a 8y agoAh, ninja'd!
- OscarCunningham 8y agoThe word "apposite" is much better than the ones I suggested.
- zuminator 8y agoThe ironic part is that one might expect the producers of a film about a massive financial scam to be more educated and diligent about avoiding the same pitfalls in their own production. The fact that they were so easily gulled while essentially lecturing the world through their film, that's amusingly contrary to expectations, hence ironic.
- scruffyherder 8y agoGonzo movie making
- Top5a 8y agoIt is not. Rather, you could say that it is congruous, or, seeking the more emphatic tone, apposite.
- newsgremlin 8y agoIf the movie was supposed to vilify financial scams instead of glorifying it yes it would be ironic. But Wolf of Wall Street was very glorified. Even when you think the anti-hero is finally going to get his just deserts he gets off relatively easy for supposedly committing a serious crime. Defining irony has been a continuous argument online, but this definition seems to capture the essence of irony - "a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often wryly amusing as a result."
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y agoEvery time someone uses the word "irony" on the internet someone comes along and makes this point. I suppose like stopped clocks these commenters must be right at least occasionally. This is not one of those occasions.
- quickthrower2 8y agoI blame Alanis Morrisette
- philpem 8y agoIf you think about it, it's a pretty good musical trolling exercise. A song about irony which doesn't contain a single instance of irony.
- breakingcups 8y agoNow, isn't that ironic?
- bitwize 8y agoAlanis has gone on tour with The Lonely Island, replacing Solange as the featured vocalist in their live performance of "Semicolon". When it gets to the part where she points out that all the lyrics are examples where colons would be used, TLI respond "Alanis Morrisette lecturing US about grammar? Isn't that a little... IRONIC?" And then they all segue into the chorus of "Ironic". Good times.
- ben509 8y agoThere's definitely a case to be made that some of that song is situational, and if you peer and squint really hard it could even be a deeper irony: https://www.salon.com/2014/05/08/what_everybody_gets_wrong_about_alanis_morissettes_ironic_partner/ https://www.salon.com/2014/05/08/what_everybody_gets_wrong_a...
- mido22 8y ago
- Top5a 8y agoNo idea why you are being downvoted. You are correct -- one of the forms of irony would, for example, entail the specific intent of making a movie in the most aboveboard manner, only to have it mired in fraud.
- wallace_f 8y agoLeonardo "fly halfway across the globe to accept a climate change award and fly back the next day" Dicaprio
- scandox 8y agoThere are stories about someone losing a five pound note that are more interesting than this. Guy blatantly steals loads of money. Celebrity. Spends it on bullshit. Celebrity. Large number. Celebrity.
- scruffyherder 8y agoThen you missed the whole point of selling pens.
- desdiv 8y ago>Since they can’t get back the stolen millions used to bankroll DiCaprio’s dreams, part of accomplishing justice in this case means the U.S. government now owns the rights and royalties of The Wolf of Wall Street. Minor correction: U.S. government received a $60 million settlement from Red Granite Pictures, but not any rights to any film directly[0]. Obviously a big chunk of that $60 million derived from the royalties of The Wolf of Wall Street, but the government didn't get the rights and royalties directly. The author might have confused it with the fact that the government was _attempting_ to seize the film rights during the court proceedings[1], but the final settlement didn't include these film rights. [0] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-malaysia-scandal-redgranite/the-wolf-of-wall-street-producers-to-pay-60-million-to-u-s-in-lawsuit-settlement-idUSKCN1GJ0FH https://www.reuters.com/article/us-malaysia-scandal-redgrani... [1] https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/feds-look-seize-wolf-wall-912733 https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/feds-look-seize-wo...
- zhte415 8y agoDirectly related book recommendation: Billion Dollar Whale by Tom Wright and Bradley Hope, published 2018. They book follows the founders of 1MDB, the quasi Malaysia soverign wealth fund wbhose investments included the founding of Red Granite the producers of Wolf of Wall Street, from pre-1MDB days through to it's demise. Quite quick and easy, repeats itself a bit and imho falls apart/seems rushed at the end, but a fascinating account of greed, corruption, and how easy it seems. Well worth a movie adaptation itself!
- arethuza 8y ago.
- desdiv 8y agoThat's really weird. Does it have something to do with its UK distribution rights or something? Funny enough, I was able to find the Spanish version of the book on Amazon UK[0], but the English version apparently "will be released on September 12, 2019"[1] for Amazon UK. I guess there exists a tiny niche market here where you can buy "early release" books from "early release" jurisdictions and ship it to "late release" jurisdictions. [0] https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/6073176899 https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/6073176899 [1] https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1912854546 https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1912854546
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- phyalow 8y agoThe publishers have been facing an injunction from Jho Lo & Co. in the UK and other markets, preventing publication. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/14/bookshops-threatened-with-legal-action-jho-low-billion-dollar-whale https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/14/bookshops-thre...
- martin_a 8y ago> . Wow. So helpful. Totally seeing the context now and the following reply makes just so much sense now...
- runn1ng 8y agoallegedly
- giancarlostoro 8y agoAfter having watched White Collar I usually say that about most accusations. We have all seen shows where an innocent person looks guilty. We somehow went from innocent until proven guilty to ridiculed and reviled until dead (and even that doesnt end it) regardless of the verdict or the reality.
- vegannet 8y agoInnocent until proven guilty is a legal standard, it is unreasonable and impractical to expect individuals to abide by it in their day to day life. Every day you are constantly making assessments on people based on the information you have, whether that’s in the context of a crime or otherwise. The justice system (in America especially) is not “fair” and does not treat guilt as the phrase “innocent until proven guilty” might lead you to believe — in many circumstances innocent defendants plead guilty. Some people like to cling to the idea of innocent until proven guilty because it’s a nice sentiment that makes things easy — “I don’t have to make a decision about this person, I can just agree with the court outcome” — but it’s meaningless outside of the legal process. Many people do not have a clear understanding of what it takes to prove guilt in court (and also do not understand what can derail a conviction) and would be surprised to learn how difficult it can be in some situations where there is (to the layman) clear evidence.
- Vinnl 8y agoTechnically meaningless outside of the legal process, but not morally. I'm fine with people assuming guilt when spitballing in a bar or something, but when it leads to mob justice, then I think it's very much something people should try to keep in mind. Sure, we no longer do actual lynchings, but innocent people's careers and relationships still get destroyed too often. Maybe not that large of a problem on a world scale, but it does feel very unjust to me.
- Maro 8y agoBut the movie wasn't a scam/fraud. The funding was stolen, the result of fraud. The moviw would have been a fraud if they collect a lot of money for it claiming Leonardo DiCaprio will star and Scorcese will direct, and then that doesn't actually happen bc they blow the money on booze.
- i_call_solo 8y agoThat doesn't make for a clickbaitey enough title though.
- jononor 8y agoThe headline is the fraud here...
- jermaustin1 8y agoLooking at Admissions/Deposits/Fees for the private English boarding school that Low went to (Harrow School), I was surprised at how "affordable" it actually is. /I/ couldn't afford it, but for the level of access you are giving your child to the world of the elite, £30k doesn't seem like its all THAT much money.
- acct1771 8y agoNow think about how good the buy looks to the people who are rich enough not to even consider the swipe! Also remember: admissions...
- dagw 8y agoI suspect its one of these cases where having the money is a necessary but far from sufficient criterion for getting you kids in.
- toyg 8y agoThat sort of school then has all sorts of “optional but really compulsory” extra fees for things like trips abroad etc. If the sticker price is 30k per year, the actual one is probably around 40k. For comparison, the average salary in UK is 28k before taxes.
- opportune 8y ago40k gbp still isn't that much. That's around what the top boarding schools cost in the US. My main concern wouldn't be the sticker price but whether you need to come from the right "background" (e.g. not nouveau-riche) for your child to get accepted. To my understanding the top US boarding schools are less concerned with your financial pedigree, which makes sense given that most rich people in the US are nouveau-riche by British standards
- circlefavshape 8y agoI knew someone (from a proper upper-class English background) who went to Harrow, and hated every minute of it. I wouldn't subject my kids to that, even if I had the money
- hacknat 8y agoIs it the responsibility of any project/startup to find out who the LPs are for a VC fund? Sometimes this information is not only inaccessible, it would be illegal for you to know. Especially in a case where - wait for it - a sovereign wealth fund might be involved. So... call me crazy, but I don’t think Leonardo DiCaprio did anything wrong here. I’m sure he’s used to rich aholes giving him money and trying to buddy up with him all the time, why would one seem more suspicious than the others?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- kosei 8y agoSome of the writing here came out really petty. Made it difficult to read and take the article seriously. > It seems the socially-awkward Low had a thing for rich, mildly attractive, blonde daughters of famous American families. > [Low would] be photographed with his sweaty, alcohol-flushed face on her shoulder.
- 089723645897236 8y agoAlmost as petty as pointing out pettiness!
- sonnyblarney 8y agoIt's understandable that clubs pay celebs to show up, though it always blows my mind how much. But for a person? Surely this can increase one's 'personal brand' - I guess - in some way, but really it's utterly sad. Literally paying people to hang out with you. I don't worry much about ever being a billionaire, but that is one thing I did ponder: how hard it would be to tell the true friends from the clingers. So sad. And $1B scam is not even a lot. Many 'national leaders' routinely take 10% of foreign direct investment right off the top. It happens in the open, clear as day, but there's hardly any reporting about it.
- ninju 8y agoThe best quote >As far as justice goes, it’s extremely poetic: a film about guys who believed they were above the law until they got caught by the feds was made by guys who believed they were above the law until they, too, got caught by the feds. >Art imitating life imitating art. Inception in real life :-)
- soapboxrocket 8y agoJust finished the book on this, Billion Dollar Whale, good read. Also shows how money like this affects politics with funding to Obama's re-election and his subsequent visit to Malaysia.