7 ms·

In my expensive area of CA, a gold insurance plan for a family of 4 costs $20,400 per year. That’s an insurance plan with a $0 deductible and $30 co-pay per doc

by cbsks 8y ago

In my expensive area of CA, a gold insurance plan for a family of 4 costs $20,400 per year. That’s an insurance plan with a $0 deductible and $30 co-pay per doctor visit. That is far from the most basic health plan. A plan with a $12k deductible is $13,500 per year. Even so, a $20k a year is peanuts compared to the out-of-pocket expenses of a serious medical emergency. Don’t fall into the trap of thinking insurance is not with it just because you haven’t had to use it yet.

m0zg 8y ago
In my area (Seattle) such plans aren't even available. So don't blindly assume that they're available outside CA. The deductible ranges between "high" and "crazy". Dental that you can buy through health exchange doesn't cover anything at all. I'm seriously at a loss as to why anyone would pay for it, if you can buy a better plan from the same company outside the exchange. And this year, Kaiser Permanente just nonchalantly raised the premium by a little under 20%. It'll probably do the same thing next year, too, because hell, why not. We need to seriously look into opening up (and stimulating) competition between health insurance companies, hospitals, and so on, to upend this blood sucker of an industry.
- brianpgordon 8y ago
  > And this year, Kaiser Permanente just nonchalantly raised the premium by a little under 20%. I wonder how much of this is due to the repeal of the individual mandate, which Wikipedia says takes effect this year.
  - m0zg 8y ago
    Don't see why KP would be affected by that directly. KP doesn't eat the cost of the uninsured.
    - jimktrains2 8y ago
      But the uninsured are more likely to be poor (and use the error for basic care because they can't afford it, raising the cost for everyone) or healthy (adding less to the cost more than they share of it). Thise two ideas are the heart and trade-off of the individual mandate: insurers must cover anyone without giant markups and in exchange everyone was forced to buy insurance to help cover those costs.
usaphp 8y ago
> $20k a year is peanuts compared to the out-of-pocket expenses of a serious medical emergency. And that’s the most annoying part. The fact that $20,000 is considered peanuts in a medical condition is already outrageous. My friend’s wife had a c-section child delivery and was billed $38,000...for a 3 days stay at the hospital. No complications just a planned c-section. I understand that’s the reason why the insurance is so high
- mbreese 8y ago
  > No complications just a planned c-section There was a lot of effort, planning, and training that goes into making sure that there aren't any complications. Not to mention the fact that even routine procedures can have unexpected complications that have to be planned for and addressed. I think that $38k for a surgical procedure with post-operative care for the mother and child isn't necessarily that outrageous. Just imagine the people, training, facilities, etc... EDIT: Now that I'm thinking about it -- was the $38k bill with or without insurance? Meaning, was this their out of pocket costs with insurance? If so, that does seem rather unreasonable. If that was the billed rate for the insurance company and your friend's out of pocket costs were lower, that would make more sense.
  - baq 8y ago
    I have 3 kids delivered by c-section. Total paid - €0. Performed by trained professionals in a nice hospital, not by villagers in a shed.
    - mbreese 8y ago
      Given that you are quoting the price in Euros, I suspect the funding mechanism for your hospital is very different than the hospital costs the parent was talking about. I know nothing about how the financial side of European hospitals work though... but I assume they still have internal costs that are tracked and tallied. Your kids' deliveries may not have cost you, but there was a total cost somewhere in the system. It probably wasn't anywhere near $38k, but even that isn't a fair comparison due to the substantial differences between the medical systems and the way indirect costs could be covered. (I'm not trying to defend one system or the other, just pointing out that the systems are different so direct comparisons like $38k vs €0 aren't that straightforward. It gets even less straightforward when you factor in the US medical insurance system.)

by cbsks 8y ago

m0zg 8y ago

In my area (Seattle) such plans aren't even available. So don't blindly assume that they're available outside CA. The deductible ranges between "high" and "crazy". Dental that you can buy through health exchange doesn't cover anything at all. I'm seriously at a loss as to why anyone would pay for it, if you can buy a better plan from the same company outside the exchange. And this year, Kaiser Permanente just nonchalantly raised the premium by a little under 20%. It'll probably do the same thing next year, too, because hell, why not. We need to seriously look into opening up (and stimulating) competition between health insurance companies, hospitals, and so on, to upend this blood sucker of an industry.

brianpgordon 8y ago
> And this year, Kaiser Permanente just nonchalantly raised the premium by a little under 20%. I wonder how much of this is due to the repeal of the individual mandate, which Wikipedia says takes effect this year.
- m0zg 8y ago
  Don't see why KP would be affected by that directly. KP doesn't eat the cost of the uninsured.
  - jimktrains2 8y ago
    But the uninsured are more likely to be poor (and use the error for basic care because they can't afford it, raising the cost for everyone) or healthy (adding less to the cost more than they share of it). Thise two ideas are the heart and trade-off of the individual mandate: insurers must cover anyone without giant markups and in exchange everyone was forced to buy insurance to help cover those costs.

usaphp 8y ago

> $20k a year is peanuts compared to the out-of-pocket expenses of a serious medical emergency. And that’s the most annoying part. The fact that $20,000 is considered peanuts in a medical condition is already outrageous. My friend’s wife had a c-section child delivery and was billed $38,000...for a 3 days stay at the hospital. No complications just a planned c-section. I understand that’s the reason why the insurance is so high

mbreese 8y ago
> No complications just a planned c-section There was a lot of effort, planning, and training that goes into making sure that there aren't any complications. Not to mention the fact that even routine procedures can have unexpected complications that have to be planned for and addressed. I think that $38k for a surgical procedure with post-operative care for the mother and child isn't necessarily that outrageous. Just imagine the people, training, facilities, etc... EDIT: Now that I'm thinking about it -- was the $38k bill with or without insurance? Meaning, was this their out of pocket costs with insurance? If so, that does seem rather unreasonable. If that was the billed rate for the insurance company and your friend's out of pocket costs were lower, that would make more sense.
- baq 8y ago
  I have 3 kids delivered by c-section. Total paid - €0. Performed by trained professionals in a nice hospital, not by villagers in a shed.
  - mbreese 8y ago
    Given that you are quoting the price in Euros, I suspect the funding mechanism for your hospital is very different than the hospital costs the parent was talking about. I know nothing about how the financial side of European hospitals work though... but I assume they still have internal costs that are tracked and tallied. Your kids' deliveries may not have cost you, but there was a total cost somewhere in the system. It probably wasn't anywhere near $38k, but even that isn't a fair comparison due to the substantial differences between the medical systems and the way indirect costs could be covered. (I'm not trying to defend one system or the other, just pointing out that the systems are different so direct comparisons like $38k vs €0 aren't that straightforward. It gets even less straightforward when you factor in the US medical insurance system.)