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> I sincerely doubt it. For learning the non-practical fundamentals of, say, computer science, there is no known learning environment that beats a university I

> I sincerely doubt it. For learning the non-practical fundamentals of, say, computer science, there is no known learning environment that beats a university IBEW electricians apprentice program is 5 years long. 6 months classroom, 6 months on a job site, repeat for 5 years until you're a journeyman. IMO the exact same pattern would be more effective than a 4 year degree any day. I've interviewed 100s of college grads at a top tech company, and I used to teach a bootcamp program. My 14 week bootcamp grads were more useful than any college grad I've interviewed, but had weak understanding of the fundamentals. If that bootcamp was 2 years I could've probably gotten them up to speed. If that classroom time was intermixed with actual industry experience they'd come out the other end ready to hit the ground running.

WrtCdEvrydy 8y ago
> were more useful than any college grad I've interviewed, but had weak understanding of the fundamentals That's the issue with bootcamps, along with the cost. A local bootcamp (Wyncode) is 11 weeks at $10,000, which is ridiculous. 1-2 programming classes at a local school can probably supplement your fundamentals, honestly, Operating Systems, Parallel Programming, and Senior Project would probably be the most useful courses for a bootcamp grad.
- itslennysfault 8y ago
  I don't think you understand what a bootcamp is. The one I taught was 14 weeks of 40 hours per week classroom plus an additional 20+ hours of homework. It is BY FAR the most bang for your buck for practical hands on coding skills. A couple programming classes isn't even in the same universe. Beyond that, our course material was bleeding edge. When some new hottness came out we incorporated it into our curriculum. Colleges have too much bureaucracy to keep up with the latest tech trends.
  - WrtCdEvrydy 8y ago
    There's nothing wrong with bleeding edge in course material, the issue with bootcamps has always been lacking of computing fundamentals.
  - souprock 8y ago
    I think it's wonderful that a bootcamp leaves out requirements that involve stuff like sociology, art history, community service, political science, and similar undesired gunk. I think it is tolerable that a bootcamp leaves out 3 semesters of calculus, 3 semesters of physics, 2 semesters of discrete math, 1 semester of statistics, 1 semester of digital logic, more math, and more science. The value here is limited. What is terrible is that a bootcamp usually neglects anything outside of one narrow specialty that happens to be popular, typically web development. The typical bootcamp isn't teaching how to create a compiler, an OS, factory automation, life-critical software, or hard real-time software.
DuskStar 8y ago
> IBEW electricians apprentice program is 5 years long. 6 months classroom, 6 months on a job site, repeat for 5 years until you're a journeyman. I mean, I did that for my CS degree. It was 8 months classroom, 4 months in the field, but pretty close, right? And I got paid pretty good money for those 4 months in the field! I'll never understand the others in my program that didn't try to find internships.

WrtCdEvrydy 8y ago

> were more useful than any college grad I've interviewed, but had weak understanding of the fundamentals That's the issue with bootcamps, along with the cost. A local bootcamp (Wyncode) is 11 weeks at $10,000, which is ridiculous. 1-2 programming classes at a local school can probably supplement your fundamentals, honestly, Operating Systems, Parallel Programming, and Senior Project would probably be the most useful courses for a bootcamp grad.

itslennysfault 8y ago
I don't think you understand what a bootcamp is. The one I taught was 14 weeks of 40 hours per week classroom plus an additional 20+ hours of homework. It is BY FAR the most bang for your buck for practical hands on coding skills. A couple programming classes isn't even in the same universe. Beyond that, our course material was bleeding edge. When some new hottness came out we incorporated it into our curriculum. Colleges have too much bureaucracy to keep up with the latest tech trends.
- WrtCdEvrydy 8y ago
  There's nothing wrong with bleeding edge in course material, the issue with bootcamps has always been lacking of computing fundamentals.
- souprock 8y ago
  I think it's wonderful that a bootcamp leaves out requirements that involve stuff like sociology, art history, community service, political science, and similar undesired gunk. I think it is tolerable that a bootcamp leaves out 3 semesters of calculus, 3 semesters of physics, 2 semesters of discrete math, 1 semester of statistics, 1 semester of digital logic, more math, and more science. The value here is limited. What is terrible is that a bootcamp usually neglects anything outside of one narrow specialty that happens to be popular, typically web development. The typical bootcamp isn't teaching how to create a compiler, an OS, factory automation, life-critical software, or hard real-time software.

DuskStar 8y ago

> IBEW electricians apprentice program is 5 years long. 6 months classroom, 6 months on a job site, repeat for 5 years until you're a journeyman. I mean, I did that for my CS degree. It was 8 months classroom, 4 months in the field, but pretty close, right? And I got paid pretty good money for those 4 months in the field! I'll never understand the others in my program that didn't try to find internships.