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And a lot of the time they leave University with a BS in Computer Science and can't find (code) their way out of a paper bag.

fabricexpert 8y ago
This is a real problem, and it does undermine the comp sci degree. Some people are completely intimidated by programming and immediately give up, they get enough credits through the modules that don’t require any actual coding and then do their dissertation on something totally abstract. I think these students are failed by the system as programming’s core concepts are quite basic, it seems to be the tooling around it that students struggle with.
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  Computer Science is not there to prepare you to be a good software developer. Comp Sci is 'Sci' :) It just so happens that being a good programmer is mostly an applied skill, and that you don't have to have rocket science Comp Sci chops to be a decent developer. In fact, in 2019, a lot of development just isn't really Comp Sci. That said, I wonder if programs should adapt and be more applied to have more of a professional kind of designation.
  - AnimalMuppet 8y ago
    Think of chemistry vs. chemical engineering. Chemistry worries about atoms and molecules, and the reactions that transform one set of molecules into another set. Chemical engineering worries about efficiently producing the desired reactions, at scale, without blowing up the factory. Chemists don't spend much time thinking about pipe bursting strength; chemical engineers do. Sure, a chemical engineer needs to know a fair amount of chemistry, but someone with a chemistry degree is not ready to be a chemical engineer. It's the same way with CS. It should be part of the college of science, just like chemistry. Software engineering should be a separate discipline, and be within the college of engineering. And having a CS degree doesn't really prepare you to work as a software engineer. Unfortunately, what we have is CS departments turning out graduates, most of whom will work as software engineers rather than computer scientists, and who are therefore badly trained for the career that they're going to try to have...
    - sonnyblarney 8y ago
      It's a good analogy. The reason I didn't use it is because I'm a Computer Engineer myself, not Comp Sci and I still don't think I was remotely prepared for the workplace! Partly due to the fact 'Engineering' is a hard thing to apply in the computer world. Partly because software R&D and Enterprise Software isn't engineering either!
walshemj 8y ago
Computer Science is not about coding
- polotics 8y ago
  Such blanket statements make me sorely miss Dijkstra... So computer science is "How to program if you cannot." ?
  - MaxBarraclough 8y ago
    > So computer science is "How to program if you cannot." ? Well, no. Of course not. Theoretical computer science, for instance, might be defined as mathematics that pertains to computation. Rice's Theorem isn't the result of any programming. Neither is information theory.

fabricexpert 8y ago

This is a real problem, and it does undermine the comp sci degree. Some people are completely intimidated by programming and immediately give up, they get enough credits through the modules that don’t require any actual coding and then do their dissertation on something totally abstract. I think these students are failed by the system as programming’s core concepts are quite basic, it seems to be the tooling around it that students struggle with.

sonnyblarney 8y ago
Computer Science is not there to prepare you to be a good software developer. Comp Sci is 'Sci' :) It just so happens that being a good programmer is mostly an applied skill, and that you don't have to have rocket science Comp Sci chops to be a decent developer. In fact, in 2019, a lot of development just isn't really Comp Sci. That said, I wonder if programs should adapt and be more applied to have more of a professional kind of designation.
- AnimalMuppet 8y ago
  Think of chemistry vs. chemical engineering. Chemistry worries about atoms and molecules, and the reactions that transform one set of molecules into another set. Chemical engineering worries about efficiently producing the desired reactions, at scale, without blowing up the factory. Chemists don't spend much time thinking about pipe bursting strength; chemical engineers do. Sure, a chemical engineer needs to know a fair amount of chemistry, but someone with a chemistry degree is not ready to be a chemical engineer. It's the same way with CS. It should be part of the college of science, just like chemistry. Software engineering should be a separate discipline, and be within the college of engineering. And having a CS degree doesn't really prepare you to work as a software engineer. Unfortunately, what we have is CS departments turning out graduates, most of whom will work as software engineers rather than computer scientists, and who are therefore badly trained for the career that they're going to try to have...
  - sonnyblarney 8y ago
    It's a good analogy. The reason I didn't use it is because I'm a Computer Engineer myself, not Comp Sci and I still don't think I was remotely prepared for the workplace! Partly due to the fact 'Engineering' is a hard thing to apply in the computer world. Partly because software R&D and Enterprise Software isn't engineering either!

walshemj 8y ago

Computer Science is not about coding

polotics 8y ago
Such blanket statements make me sorely miss Dijkstra... So computer science is "How to program if you cannot." ?
- MaxBarraclough 8y ago
  > So computer science is "How to program if you cannot." ? Well, no. Of course not. Theoretical computer science, for instance, might be defined as mathematics that pertains to computation. Rice's Theorem isn't the result of any programming. Neither is information theory.